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post #1 of 3085 Old 10-31-2017, 09:57 PM - Thread Starter
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Marantz AV8805 15.2 XLR Pre/Pro Official Thread

Hi,

And here are the details of the new and long awaited Marantz AV8805 pre/pro :

15.2 XLR with a 13.2 channels processing capacity, which in Atmos can drive 7.2.6 or 9.2.4 configurations.

Audyssey MultEQ Editor App compatible.

- initial early info origin : http://www.avsite.gr/forum/threads/...essing.160716/

- official info Marantz US site : http://www.us.marantz.com/us/Product...oductId=AV8805
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post #2 of 3085 Old 10-31-2017, 10:56 PM
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Thanks Hugo.

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post #3 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 12:40 AM
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Thanks Hugo.
Hey Frank

Welp! here we go ,time to find out if the upgrade repelant will work or not. I'm glad to see the same dac in place and the adjustabilty of the Audyssey app may just level the playing field as far as DRC ? I have two channels left over from my 8ch NuForce MCA 18 and 4 left over speakers I used for Atmos of which two could be used as wides. I think the repelants wearing off already Not many other options out there at the moment that hits all my needs and as much as I'd like to try something new , the 8805 is looking tempting. I'm now going to apply more repelant
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post #4 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 12:46 AM
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Hey Frank



Welp! here we go ,time to find out if the upgrade repelant will work or not. I'm glad to see the same dac in place and the adjustabilty of the Audyssey app may just level the playing field as far as DRC ? I have two channels left over from my 8ch NuForce MCA 18 and 4 left over speakers I used for Atmos of which two could be used as wides. I think the repelants wearing off already Not many other options out there at the moment that hits all my needs and as much as I'd like to try something new , the 8805 is looking tempting. I'm now going to apply more repelant


Hi Jeff
I could go this way as I do have additional 2 speakers ( actually sitting there as front heights ) that I haven’t used but not sure. The Audyssey App ( Alebonau favourite ) looks interesting as it’s adjustable. Has the Audyssey improved in anyway ?

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post #5 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 01:38 AM
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Originally Posted by Franin View Post
Hi Jeff
I could go this way as I do have additional 2 speakers ( actually sitting there as front heights ) that I haven’t used but not sure. The Audyssey App ( Alebonau favourite ) looks interesting as it’s adjustable. Has the Audyssey improved in anyway ?
Al's gonna be in an uproar for sure! I'm guessing Audyssey's only real down fault was not enough flexibility, it has filters galore already and seeing the app pretty much solves that nagging don't touch the highs. I'd love to play around with it and see what it can do as I've always liked what it does as far as clarity to the lower frequencies but wish I had more control and from what I understand Pro didn't really do that?
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post #6 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 02:51 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Al's gonna be in an uproar for sure! I'm guessing Audyssey's only real down fault was not enough flexibility, it has filters galore already and seeing the app pretty much solves that nagging don't touch the highs. I'd love to play around with it and see what it can do as I've always liked what it does as far as clarity to the lower frequencies but wish I had more control and from what I understand Pro didn't really do that?


Yes that’s what got me interested in it as well, the flexibility. I’ve got the pro sitting at home I’ve never needed to use anymore , because when I last did a comparison ( pro vs built in ) I noticed the XTZ results between the two was very similar.

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post #7 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 03:03 AM
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Originally Posted by audiofan1 View Post
Al's gonna be in an uproar for sure! I'm guessing Audyssey's only real down fault was not enough flexibility, it has filters galore already and seeing the app pretty much solves that nagging don't touch the highs. I'd love to play around with it and see what it can do as I've always liked what it does as far as clarity to the lower frequencies but wish I had more control and from what I understand Pro didn't really do that?


Yes that’s what got me interested in it as well, the flexibility. I’ve got the pro sitting at home I’ve never needed to use anymore , because when I last did a comparison ( pro vs built in ) I noticed the XTZ results between the two was very similar.
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post #8 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 07:26 AM
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Christmas comes early.

I need to see full specifications. When will the AV8805 become available?
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post #9 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 07:33 AM
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Christmas comes early.

I need to see full specifications. When will the AV8805 become available?
Projected release date - Spring 2018
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post #10 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 08:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hugo S View Post
Hi,

And here are the details of the new and long awaited Marantz AV8805 pre/pro :
THanks Hugo. By chance do you have similar info for the Denon AVR version of this?

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post #11 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 11:18 AM
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For me, the competitor for this will be the Emotiva RMC-1, especially as I have one of the 40% off cards. However, I would really like to simplify my rack so the new Denon Flagship (AVR 8500) is in the mix. The early pages of the 8802 thread had a lot of pictures showing the very significant physical component differences between the 8802 and the 7702MkII. It's clear that the most discerning audiophile would consider the 8802 to be superior to the 7702MkII, even if to my ears in an ordinary Home Theater I could't hear the difference. Hence, the reason I went with the 7702MkII. From the photos, I don't see how Denon will be able to put 13(?) amps in the upcoming AVR 8500 with the processing circuitry of the 8805 in the same size box, so it will, of necessity, have a lot fewer components. I'm guessing that the current Denon Flagship Receiver (AVR 7702) has a processing section closer to the 7702MkII than the 8802 and so I suspect that the Denon 8500 will be similarly "downrezzed" from the AV8805. There is no information on whether a step-down 13-ch processor a la the 7702MkII is in the offing, but I wouldn't be surprised as the engineering will have been done for the AVR 8500. I've seen comment that for an ordinary sort of 12' x 14' Home Theater principally for multi-channel playback (and not 2-ch audio), the flagship receivers are good enough, as compared to full-on separates. Would anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?

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post #12 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 11:22 AM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
For me, the competitor for this will be the Emotiva RMC-1, especially as I have one of the 40% off cards. However, I would really like to simplify my rack so the new Denon Flagship (AVR 8500) is in the mix. The early pages of the 8802 thread had a lot of pictures showing the very significant physical component differences between the 8802 and the 7702MkII. It's clear that the most discerning audiophile would consider the 8802 to be superior to the 7702MkII, even if to my ears in an ordinary Home Theater I could't hear the difference. Hence, the reason I went with the 7702MkII. From the photos, I don't see how Denon will be able to put 13(?) amps in the upcoming AVR 8500 with the processing circuitry of the 8805 in the same size box, so it will, of necessity, have a lot fewer components. I'm guessing that the current Denon Flagship Receiver (AVR 7702) has a processing section closer to the 7702MkII than the 8802 and so I suspect that the Denon 8500 will be similarly "downrezzed" from the AV8805. There is no information on whether a step-down 13-ch processor a la the 7702MkII is in the offing, but I wouldn't be surprised as the engineering will have been done for the AVR 8500. I've seen comment that for an ordinary sort of 12' x 14' Home Theater principally for multi-channel playback (and not 2-ch audio), the flagship receivers are good enough, as compared to full-on separates. Would anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?
Nah ... the AV7702MKII is more akin to the Denon X4200W in both processing power and DAC while the flagship X7200WA is more akin to the AV8802A.
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post #13 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 12:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
From the photos, I don't see how Denon will be able to put 13(?) amps in the upcoming AVR 8500 with the processing circuitry of the 8805 in the same size box, so it will, of necessity, have a lot fewer components.
As I recall, the space occupied by the power amps in the AVR-X7200WA is the same space as is occupied by the discrete HDAM preamp circuit boards in the AV8802A. (HDAM circuit boards are not used in Denon equipment.) The two otherwise are identical. As a result, I wouldn't be a bit surprised if the same physical layout is used for both the AVR-X8500H and the AV8805 since the only differences between them is expected to be the power amps and the HDAM circuits.
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post #14 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 12:12 PM
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As an 8802A owner and AVS member in good standing, I want to upgrade...just because that is what we do here on AVS. I am trying to justify to myself why I need this unit and not sure I can come up with something. I know it has the additional two channels I could use for Atmos (I already use 4..not sure 6 is that important to ME). The Audyssey app is somewhat exciting but I think that is coming to the 8802A via firmware update ? I don't need HDMI 2.1 as of today (assuming that makes it to this unit, I have not yet seen it advertised). What am I missing?

Somebody talk me into something here
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post #15 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 12:40 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
I've seen comment that for an ordinary sort of 12' x 14' Home Theater principally for multi-channel playback (and not 2-ch audio), the flagship receivers are good enough, as compared to full-on separates. Would anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?
Like so much in the high-fidelity AV market, "It depends."

Ignoring the emotional investment in knowing you have some of the best equipment available, there's at least one technical difference.

Standalone pre/pros have lower measured noise and distortion levels than the equivalent receivers. At least some of that noise presumably is being generated in the amplifier circuits and working its way from there into the receiver's preamps.

Over the past few years, I've seen several reports about a fixed background noise level in D+M equipment. It's less noticeable when low efficiency speakers (< 90 dB/w/m) and thus high trim levels (> 0dB) are used. Soundtracks are amplified substantially and mask that noise. It becomes more audible when low trim levels are set by Audyssey (close to -12dB) because high efficiency speakers (> 100 dB/w/m) are in use. Soundtrack audio isn't amplified as much and can't mask it as well.

As a result, using separates would probably be more appropriate than receivers when using high efficiency speakers.
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post #16 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 12:52 PM
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Originally Posted by Frohlich View Post
As an 8802A owner and AVS member in good standing, I want to upgrade...just because that is what we do here on AVS. I am trying to justify to myself why I need this unit and not sure I can come up with something. I know it has the additional two channels I could use for Atmos (I already use 4..not sure 6 is that important to ME). The Audyssey app is somewhat exciting but I think that is coming to the 8802A via firmware update ? I don't need HDMI 2.1 as of today (assuming that makes it to this unit, I have not yet seen it advertised). What am I missing?

Somebody talk me into something here
It will be impossible for the Audyssey app to work on the 8802A (or the 7702). That is because engineering used the RAM on the new DSP's that isn't on the 8802 DSP's.

Like last round, I plan on digging into what the board level differences are, and compare those differences to subjective SQ differences. We shall see....
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post #17 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 01:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ted99 View Post
For me, the competitor for this will be the Emotiva RMC-1, especially as I have one of the 40% off cards. However, I would really like to simplify my rack so the new Denon Flagship (AVR 8500) is in the mix. The early pages of the 8802 thread had a lot of pictures showing the very significant physical component differences between the 8802 and the 7702MkII. It's clear that the most discerning audiophile would consider the 8802 to be superior to the 7702MkII, even if to my ears in an ordinary Home Theater I could't hear the difference. Hence, the reason I went with the 7702MkII. From the photos, I don't see how Denon will be able to put 13(?) amps in the upcoming AVR 8500 with the processing circuitry of the 8805 in the same size box, so it will, of necessity, have a lot fewer components. I'm guessing that the current Denon Flagship Receiver (AVR 7702) has a processing section closer to the 7702MkII than the 8802 and so I suspect that the Denon 8500 will be similarly "downrezzed" from the AV8805. There is no information on whether a step-down 13-ch processor a la the 7702MkII is in the offing, but I wouldn't be surprised as the engineering will have been done for the AVR 8500. I've seen comment that for an ordinary sort of 12' x 14' Home Theater principally for multi-channel playback (and not 2-ch audio), the flagship receivers are good enough, as compared to full-on separates. Would anyone care to offer their thoughts on this?
I see that you have Polk Audio speakers They are nice speakers. But I would not be buying a flagship processor with your speakers. I'd be staring at the 7704. It would be like putting a set of $4K tires on a Honda Accord Sport. I'm not making fun of the Honda, I own one. And since Polk Audio is now associated with Marantz via "Sound United", I was thinking about buying a set of Polks for a bedroom system.

Also, I listened to the Denon 7200 preouts (related to the 8802). It is a very good sounding preamp section. Sure, the 8805 will sound better with your speakers just as I will appreciate a pair of $4K tires on my Accord. But you would be lopsided in your spending.
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post #18 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 01:23 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi,

Quote:
Originally Posted by anthonymoody View Post
THanks Hugo. By chance do you have similar info for the Denon AVR version of this?
No, sorry.

But I'm sure that JD will get us something, not too far in the future.

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post #19 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 01:55 PM
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Balance in all things. Following the logic of @SteveH (who was responsible for all the great 8802/7702 comparison photos), I should take the Polk (albeit their hi -end) speakers as my baseline and match the other audio components to them in performance. I respect this opinion, as I am happy with the Polks in my HT. Per JD's response on processor power (first I've ever read on this comparison--thank you very much):
If AV7702 MkII > X4200W, and
AV8802A > X7200WA, then
AV7704 > X4400W All of these are 11.1

So, if I want 13.1 early next year, I must go to the flagship AV 8805 receiver or the X8500H (or RMC-1) and be out of balance with my speakers. If I want to stay in balance, but still have 13.1 ch of processing power; I'll have to wait for the replacement for the X6400W (or AV7705?), which might have 13.1 ch of processing? Following the usual D/M timing, these models would be announced mid-2018, or so.

This sounds like a reasonable plan, if I can fight off ungradeitis. Comments?

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post #20 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 02:02 PM
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well, you’ll need something to take your mind off Browns/Indians/Cavs.....and OSU looks to have an uphill climb to the playoffs. Might as well get a new toy.
Huge Buckeye Fan. I actually think they are in great shape if they win out. I have followed the BCS rankings long enough to know they NEVER stay steady. In 2014 they were ranked #14 in the first BCS poll of the season...so we are way ahead of schedule right now There will also be movement and loses by top 10 teams. IF they make it to the Big Ten Championship game and beat Wisconsin then I am 90% confident they will be in the playoff this year.

I am in Cincinnati so the Cleveland teams do nothing for me :-)

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Originally Posted by SteveH View Post
It will be impossible for the Audyssey app to work on the 8802A (or the 7702). That is because engineering used the RAM on the new DSP's that isn't on the 8802 DSP's.

Like last round, I plan on digging into what the board level differences are, and compare those differences to subjective SQ differences. We shall see....
You are my crack dealer, I'm an easy sell
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post #21 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 02:03 PM - Thread Starter
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Hi again,

Concerning the DACs, the specs sheet of the 8805 above indicates AKM AK4490, which are indicated as being "premium"... a direct differentiation from the 7704...

Now my personal interest in the 8805 lies in that - as the specs sheet above indicates - this 8805 will have a 9.2.4 capacity, aka it will be able to process wides in Atmos. This interest coming from the fact that our installation is 9.2.6.

And for those interested in getting an idea of what 9.X.X configurations can provide, some time ago I wrote an article for HCFR directly comparing 7.1.4 and 9.1.4 reproductions (+ 9.1.6 & 21.1.8, all this with the exceptional Trinnov Altitude 32...), it's available here (in French) :

http://www.homecinema-fr.com/dolby-a...1-6-et-21-1-8/

So in our case Spring 2018 (availability of the 8805 as JD indicated above) will be a tough period to decide which option to choose a 8805 with its 9.2.4 (or 7.2.6) capacity or a Trinnov Altitude 16 with a full 9.1.6 capacity...

And for those interested here is a photo I took for the look and specs of the static Trinnov A16 shown at the recent (mid October) Festival du Son et de l'Image in Paris.

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post #22 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 02:10 PM
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Seems strange to me that they are maintaining so many of the legacy video connections on there. The picture makes it look like there are several component and composite video inputs, more than most anyone needs.

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post #23 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 03:15 PM
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Originally Posted by Jawaburger View Post
Seems strange to me that they are maintaining so many of the legacy video connections on there. The picture makes it look like there are several component and composite video inputs, more than most anyone needs.
When I was in Japan October of 2016, I was shown the road map of the pending prepro. I asked the very same question. A key reason why they kept them was based off of their demographics of the typical Marantz buyer. Meaning, they are older. So according to their research, the legacy connections still made sense. It's not as if they want to spend more on the BOL. Rather, they don't want to lose buyers who still have these legacy connections. In the custom installer world where a lot of 88xx sales end up, legacy connections are infinitely more important than the researched oriented, earlier adopter AVS-type member.

For me, I don't personally need up-conversion on my prepro, phono, a tuner, more HDMI outs, composite, component, balanced inputs. Yet others like myself do care about the embedded HEOS (a VERY nice feature IMHO) as well as zone 2 and zone 3. But for me at least, those features are positively important. So mathematically speaking, their economy of scale increases when they don't exclude buyers which further drives down their over all costs. I assume that's how they work the math and how they make their decisions. If their only target market was an early adopter AVS type buyer, then I bet they would not have slashed those connections.

My other guess has to do with what exactly the 8805 really is. It's a tweaked out Denon platform not the other way around. So when Denon drops even more connections (that of course will happen one day), that's when Marantz will drop more connections too. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if it is actually less expensive to leave the back panel, "motherboard" etc the same as before versus re-engineering a new platform to "save" connections.

This last paragraph reminded me of the Lexicon MC-12 then the MC-8 and finally the released MC-4. While talking with Jeremy Front of Lexicon back then, he alluded to the fact that it was expensive to re-spin a "cheaper" Lex prepro. As in, when you amortize engineering costs and tooling over a lower volume product, the BOM and assembly savings are nonexistent. Putting it another way, their "cost" of re-spinning a cheaper prepro (including NRE's, etc) may not of added much to their bottom line.

To be clear, Marantz has made no references to the last two paragraphs. Rather this is my own theory.

Last edited by SteveH; 11-01-2017 at 03:44 PM.
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post #24 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 04:20 PM
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Balance in all things. Following the logic of @SteveH (who was responsible for all the great 8802/7702 comparison photos), I should take the Polk (albeit their hi -end) speakers as my baseline and match the other audio components to them in performance. I respect this opinion, as I am happy with the Polks in my HT. Per JD's response on processor power (first I've ever read on this comparison--thank you very much):
If AV7702 MkII > X4200W, and
AV8802A > X7200WA, then
AV7704 > X4400W All of these are 11.1

So, if I want 13.1 early next year, I must go to the flagship AV 8805 receiver or the X8500H (or RMC-1) and be out of balance with my speakers. If I want to stay in balance, but still have 13.1 ch of processing power; I'll have to wait for the replacement for the X6400W (or AV7705?), which might have 13.1 ch of processing? Following the usual D/M timing, these models would be announced mid-2018, or so.

This sounds like a reasonable plan, if I can fight off ungradeitis. Comments?
Highly unlikely. Only the "flagship" AV8805 and X8500H models are likely to retain that honor for a few years to set them apart.
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post #25 of 3085 Old 11-01-2017, 05:14 PM
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Huge Buckeye Fan. I actually think they are in great shape if they win out. I have followed the BCS rankings long enough to know they NEVER stay steady. In 2014 they were ranked #14 in the first BCS poll of the season...so we are way ahead of schedule right now There will also be movement and loses by top 10 teams. IF they make it to the Big Ten Championship game and beat Wisconsin then I am 90% confident they will be in the playoff this year.

I am in Cincinnati so the Cleveland teams do nothing for me :-)
I grew up in Mansfield, so picked the Cleveland teams. My undergrad was a D-III school that always got pounded by our rivals. Fortunately went to OSU for grad school. Then we moved up here to Minneapolis, where my adopted sports team aren’t so hot either

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post #26 of 3085 Old 11-12-2017, 10:27 PM
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Any body have information on the suggested placement with an AV8805/X8500H for the 6 top speakers in an Atmos 7-1-6 setup? This is a dedicated theater with 2 rows of seating.....

Thanks!!
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post #27 of 3085 Old 11-12-2017, 10:41 PM
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When I was in Japan October of 2016, I was shown the road map of the pending prepro.
At the top levels, is there a separate design/engineering team for "Denon" as opposed to "Marantz," or is it there just one "D&M" design team, so to speak?
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post #28 of 3085 Old 11-13-2017, 01:33 AM
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Any body have information on the suggested placement with an AV8805/X8500H for the 6 top speakers in an Atmos 7-1-6 setup? This is a dedicated theater with 2 rows of seating.....

Thanks!!
Using all (3) height speaker settings that have been available since Atmos AVRs were first introduced 3 years ago in the normally configured locations: Top Front, Top Middle, Top Rear.
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post #29 of 3085 Old 11-13-2017, 08:35 AM
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Using all (3) height speaker settings that have been available since Atmos AVRs were first introduced 3 years ago in the normally configured locations: Top Front, Top Middle, Top Rear.
Thanks, I’ve seen those suggested diagrams. They typically account for a single MLP and not a 2 row theater. I am hoping that the additional ceiling speakers may increase the sweet pot or coverage area. Although it is always a compromise!
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post #30 of 3085 Old 11-13-2017, 09:05 AM
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Originally Posted by James Elvick View Post
Any body have information on the suggested placement with an AV8805/X8500H for the 6 top speakers in an Atmos 7-1-6 setup? This is a dedicated theater with 2 rows of seating.....
For even coverage, mount the front pair of heights a few feet forward of the front row, the back pair a few feet rearward of the back row, the middle pair splitting the gap between the two rows. Both rows will be able to distinguish height sounds that are forward of them, rearward of them, and overhead.

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