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post #481 of 509 Old 01-10-2019, 09:02 PM
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Do you have a 3D blu Ray player you have tested?
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post #482 of 509 Old 01-10-2019, 09:04 PM
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Originally Posted by ThaDraGun View Post
Ive tried many different videos. None of them are working. They are SBS, maybe HSBS. 1080p, 16:9, mp4 files.

Not sure how to get more info about the files..


For reference I wasn’t able to properly get my personal 3D library working via Plex in my Shield. However with 3D blu rays it worked great.
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post #483 of 509 Old 01-10-2019, 09:09 PM
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For reference I wasn’t able to properly get my personal 3D library working via Plex in my Shield. However with 3D blu rays it worked great.
I dont have a bluray player. All my videos are digital files.
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post #484 of 509 Old 01-10-2019, 09:13 PM
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I dont have a bluray player. All my videos are digital files.


Hm. I’m on my iPhone and can’t mention him but you should DM or @ 3DBob. He has a TK800 that is similar and he has lots of 3D experience
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post #485 of 509 Old 01-11-2019, 01:38 PM
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I have not gotten my 2550 to work with my 3D Blu Ray (BD-J7500). First I thought it was something with the receiver maybe but then connected the bluray directly to the projector and still does not work. Comes up and says not connected to 3D device. So I switch to 3d mode on projector and still says the same thing.
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post #486 of 509 Old 01-11-2019, 03:11 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jason Stucker View Post
I have not gotten my 2550 to work with my 3D Blu Ray (BD-J7500). First I thought it was something with the receiver maybe but then connected the bluray directly to the projector and still does not work. Comes up and says not connected to 3D device. So I switch to 3d mode on projector and still says the same thing.


No idea. You can try some trouble shooting:

If your player has a ‘quick’ power on turn it OFF. Make sure the projector is powered on first and switch it into 3D mode before turning on your player. If all else fails try plugging your player into the HDMI 1.4a port (input 2). Input 2 is the non-4K HDMI input and if it works there it could be pointing to some compatibility issue between your player and the HDMI 2.0 port.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #487 of 509 Old 01-11-2019, 04:50 PM
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No idea. You can try some trouble shooting:

If your player has a ‘quick’ power on turn it OFF. Make sure the projector is powered on first and switch it into 3D mode before turning on your player. If all else fails try plugging your player into the HDMI 1.4a port (input 2). Input 2 is the non-4K HDMI input and if it works there it could be pointing to some compatibility issue between your player and the HDMI 2.0 port.
I will try it with the second HDMI on the projector.
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post #488 of 509 Old 01-11-2019, 07:45 PM
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I cant believe how hard it is to get the 3D working on this thing! Geeze I just spent $170 on glasses and I just want to use them.

So far the only thing I have gotten to work is 3D games on my PS3 in HDMI port 2.
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post #489 of 509 Old 01-11-2019, 08:24 PM
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I will try it with the second HDMI on the projector.
Moving the cable to HDMI 2 worked. Gonna suck to have to move the cable to go between 4K content and 3D content.
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post #490 of 509 Old 01-12-2019, 07:29 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Jason Stucker View Post
Moving the cable to HDMI 2 worked. Gonna suck to have to move the cable to go between 4K content and 3D content.


I have suspected for some time that there could be a compatibility issue between the 4K HDMI 2.0 port and 3D which, for the record, isn’t supported in the UHD spec. In theory, 2.0 is backward compatible and yet I experienced sync issues and I keep seeing reports of issues using 3D on a 4k device through the 2.0 port. I have not had hands on time with the UHD51a but I know a reviewer that has and he experienced similar issues on that model. Fortunately, the Optoma allows you to switch the HDMI mode in the menu. The BenQs do not have that ability.

In both my Ht2550 and TK800 reviews I detailed the sync issues I had on HDMI 1. For what it’s worth, both had far fewer issues with the BenQ branded goggles and both became stellar performers once I switched to HDMI 2 (the 1.4a port). Seeing as running an extra HDMI wasn’t an issue in my install it wasn’t that big of a deal FOR ME. But I can imagine this being an issue for others which is why I detailed it in the reviews.

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post #491 of 509 Old 01-13-2019, 10:12 AM
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Question HELP: Benq HT2550 Issues - Latest Firmware 1.03

Hi everyone,

I've gone through this thread several times to figure out if there was an answer to my 2x issues, but I can't find them.

1) 3D is really washed out in darker scenes. The effect is perfect and bright scenes seem fine. It's not that the blacks are not black (they're not), but that the contrast difference between blacks and other colors is only slight. Any ideas?

2) HDR colors are off and I can't see to correct them. White balance seems fine (white looks good to me), but yellows look more orangish and I've played with color management to death. Is there a good tutorial that teaches one how each color setting (hue, sat, gain) affect the image? Or, do you have any other advice as to how I can solve this? I've tried the blue filter with color bars in ISF and I have tons of calibration images in both 709 and 2020.

PS: 709 content looks great (not washed out and yellow looks yellow), so I don't think my environment has anything to do with it.

Thanks!
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post #492 of 509 Old 01-13-2019, 01:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
Hi everyone,



I've gone through this thread several times to figure out if there was an answer to my 2x issues, but I can't find them.



1) 3D is really washed out in darker scenes. The effect is perfect and bright scenes seem fine. It's not that the blacks are not black (they're not), but that the contrast difference between blacks and other colors is only slight. Any ideas?



2) HDR colors are off and I can't see to correct them. White balance seems fine (white looks good to me), but yellows look more orangish and I've played with color management to death. Is there a good tutorial that teaches one how each color setting (hue, sat, gain) affect the image? Or, do you have any other advice as to how I can solve this? I've tried the blue filter with color bars in ISF and I have tons of calibration images in both 709 and 2020.



PS: 709 content looks great (not washed out and yellow looks yellow), so I don't think my environment has anything to do with it.



Thanks!


I actually found the HT2550’s 3D to be really good (once I figured out the sync thing). But, certainly, contrast isn’t great in 3D for any projector. The glasses dim the image a LOT. In his review (http://hometheaterhifi.com/reviews/...jector-review/) Chris Eberle measured the HT2550 at 25nits in 3D for a contrast ratio around 312:1. While that sounds awful it’s not too far off the mark for most DLPs in 3D. It’s also a better measurement than he got for the brighter TK800 (222:1). But I found brightness is the key to a good 3D experience and the HT2550 needs a dark, light controlled room to really display 3D well. My guess is nits are the issue here— you can try to get more brightness by moving the bulb to normal and turning on brilliant color (if not on already).

What calibration patterns are you using for BT2020? Keep in mind that while the HT2550 accepts and displays HDR it is really a rec709 device with little coverage of DCI P3 and even less of BT 2020. So for HDR content the BenQ has to convert the expanded color gamut into something the projector can display by remapping those values.
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post #493 of 509 Old 01-13-2019, 01:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
Hi everyone,



I've gone through this thread several times to figure out if there was an answer to my 2x issues, but I can't find them.



1) 3D is really washed out in darker scenes. The effect is perfect and bright scenes seem fine. It's not that the blacks are not black (they're not), but that the contrast difference between blacks and other colors is only slight. Any ideas?



2) HDR colors are off and I can't see to correct them. White balance seems fine (white looks good to me), but yellows look more orangish and I've played with color management to death. Is there a good tutorial that teaches one how each color setting (hue, sat, gain) affect the image? Or, do you have any other advice as to how I can solve this? I've tried the blue filter with color bars in ISF and I have tons of calibration images in both 709 and 2020.



PS: 709 content looks great (not washed out and yellow looks yellow), so I don't think my environment has anything to do with it.



Thanks!


It’s down to personal preference, but I’ve had good luck changing the Color Gamut to ‘BT709’ for HDR content. I like the keep the color temperature at normal with the BT709 setting.

For certain content if I leave the Color Gamut in ‘Auto’ or ‘BT2020’ I change the color temperature to Cool and this tones down the warmth in that gamut a bit.

Art Feierman on ProjectorReviews.com posted his calibration settings. I use my own contrast and brightness settings but his color settings are good.


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post #494 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
My guess is nits are the issue here— you can try to get more brightness by moving the bulb to normal and turning on brilliant color (if not on already).
It's interesting because bright scenes look phenomenal. It's the dark. I've played with gamma, brightness, and contrast and it seems like at some point there's just not any more data in the dark scenes (it looks like), but my 3D TV upstairs has all kinds of gradients in the dark.
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What calibration patterns are you using for BT2020?
I'm using DVS with these filters. I'm kind of fixing the poor colors by adjusting hue in certain colors, but I'm looking for a more objective (than just my eye and patience) way to discern if the colors are at least close to accurate.
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Art Feierman on ProjectorReviews.com posted his calibration settings. I use my own contrast and brightness settings but his color settings are good.
I was excited to find that post, but it looks like a lot has changed since his firmware 1.0.0 review and those settings DO NOT apply. In fact, in that version, you could still use the different presets (sports, vivid, bright) while displaying HDR content. Now, in 1.0.3, you can't. You only get HDR as your only preset. This is also true for 3D. It's why I'm having such a hard time getting a picture that I'm happy with. I reached out to him to ask him if he'd update his review for 1.0.3 seeing as his settings don't apply anymore, but he told me that he doesn't have the unit anymore. It's pretty much awesome for 2D 709. I use Vivid and I calibrated using these patterns.
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post #495 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 01:26 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
It's interesting because bright scenes look phenomenal. It's the dark. I've played with gamma, brightness, and contrast and it seems like at some point there's just not any more data in the dark scenes (it looks like), but my 3D TV upstairs has all kinds of gradients in the dark.

I'm using DVS with these filters. I'm kind of fixing the poor colors by adjusting hue in certain colors, but I'm looking for a more objective (than just my eye and patience) way to discern if the colors are at least close to accurate.

I was excited to find that post, but it looks like a lot has changed since his firmware 1.0.0 review and those settings DO NOT apply. In fact, in that version, you could still use the different presets (sports, vivid, bright) while displaying HDR content. Now, in 1.0.3, you can't. You only get HDR as your only preset. This is also true for 3D. It's why I'm having such a hard time getting a picture that I'm happy with. I reached out to him to ask him if he'd update his review for 1.0.3 seeing as his settings don't apply anymore, but he told me that he doesn't have the unit anymore. It's pretty much awesome for 2D 709. I use Vivid and I calibrated using these patterns.
I failed to mention I used Cinema as my base to calibrate my HDR mode. I would recommend you do the same. If you created your HDR mode based on the Vivid preset, I am guess that is why you are experiencing saturation. But is what you are saying is that you cannot change to your own user-created mode with HDR content? I don't remember seeing that change anywhere in the changelogs...
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post #496 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 01:53 PM - Thread Starter
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I failed to mention I used Cinema as my base to calibrate my HDR mode. I would recommend you do the same. If you created your HDR mode based on the Vivid preset, I am guess that is why you are experiencing saturation. But is what you are saying is that you cannot change to your own user-created mode with HDR content? I don't remember seeing that change anywhere in the changelogs...


When HDR is detected the HT2550 automatically switches to the ‘cinema’ preset which is actually not the same ‘cinema’ preset that you get when feeding the projector rec709. It is a specific mode for HDR content. It really should just be called ‘HDR’ to lower confusion.
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post #497 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 03:40 PM
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I failed to mention I used Cinema as my base to calibrate my HDR mode. I would recommend you do the same.
With the latest firmware (1.0.3), there is only 1x HDR Preset and you cannot use Cinema or Sport or Vivid.
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It really should just be called ‘HDR’ to lower confusion.
I think they cleared it up because mine only says HDR and it greys out the Picture Mode menu.
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post #498 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 03:58 PM
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With the latest firmware (1.0.3), there is only 1x HDR Preset and you cannot use Cinema or Sport or Vivid.

I think they cleared it up because mine only says HDR and it greys out the Picture Mode menu.
Have you tried going into the Advanced Settings and adjusting the Color Gamut to BT709 while in HDR mode?
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post #499 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 07:21 PM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
It's interesting because bright scenes look phenomenal. It's the dark. I've played with gamma, brightness, and contrast and it seems like at some point there's just not any more data in the dark scenes (it looks like), but my 3D TV upstairs has all kinds of gradients in the dark.



I'm using DVS with these filters. I'm kind of fixing the poor colors by adjusting hue in certain colors, but I'm looking for a more objective (than just my eye and patience) way to discern if the colors are at least close to accurate.



I was excited to find that post, but it looks like a lot has changed since his firmware 1.0.0 review and those settings DO NOT apply. In fact, in that version, you could still use the different presets (sports, vivid, bright) while displaying HDR content. Now, in 1.0.3, you can't. You only get HDR as your only preset. This is also true for 3D. It's why I'm having such a hard time getting a picture that I'm happy with. I reached out to him to ask him if he'd update his review for 1.0.3 seeing as his settings don't apply anymore, but he told me that he doesn't have the unit anymore. It's pretty much awesome for 2D 709. I use Vivid and I calibrated using these patterns.


There’s a lot going on here.

First of all, the HT2550– like all projectors in it’s price range— is a rec709 device. BenQ makes no bones about this in their marketing and advertises the HT2550 as having 96% coverage of the rec709 color space with DeltaE errors of < 3 out of the box. It does not have significant coverage of DCI-P3 and, obviously, bt2020 (although, to be fair, most displays struggle with bt2020).

The issue, of course, is that most HDR content is mastered using an expanded color gamut. This requires that the projector re-map or ‘convert’ the incoming expanded color gamut to something that the projector can display. What this means in practice is simulating the expanded color space by tweaking hue as you move towards the greater saturation points.

For what it’s worth, I think the HT2550 does an admirable job here. I said as much in my review. While you’re not going to get as rich or as accurate color as you would on a true DCI P3 capable display I think BenQ has made smart compromises here. This may possibly come down to expectations— the HT2550 is one of the least expensive 4K projectors on the market and none of it’s contemporaries can claim expanded color gamut coverage (and most have lower peak brightness in HDR).

If you want DCI-P3 you just have to spend more. The Epson 4010 at $2k offers 98% of DCI-P3 but you have to engage it’s filter to achieve this. What this means is light output is severely hampered— around 130 nits in HDR. BenQ is close to releasing their brand new HT3550. Pricing should slide below the Epson and BenQ is claiming 94% coverage of DCI-P3. No idea if it will take a similar peak brightness hit to the Epson to achieve this.

For what it’s worth, Chris Eberle’s testing of the HT2550 seems to reveal exactly what you are seeing with your own eyes right down to those more orangish yellows.


Another thing to tackle is the higher peak brightness of HDR itself. To be blunt, projectors just can’t produce the nits your average flatscreen can. Someone correct me if I’m wrong but I believe most all HDR10 content is mastered for 1000 nits. These days, LCD panels have little trouble hitting (and surpassing) that target. OLEDs aren’t quite there but they’re usually close at around 700/800 nits. Most projectors fall well below that, with performance varying between models but most generally in the neighborhood of 100-470 nits. For the record, the HT2550 has been measured at 265 nits— meaning it is actually one of the brighter models intended for home theater use but well below the capabilities of a TV. This lower peak brightness means that some sacrifices have to be made when it comes to saturation and clipping points. This is just a fact of life with projectors.

As for 3D— try running through your rec709 test patterns while in forced 3D mode and see if a bump in brightness doesn’t help bring out some more shadow detail. I haven’t had an issue here myself but then most all of my 3D movies are animated stuff which is inherently bright. Maybe I’ve just never noticed.

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post #500 of 509 Old 01-14-2019, 11:09 PM
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I am amazed by the sdr performance of this projector but I always found the hdr to be somewhat lacking.

Today while swiping through the hdr screen savers I found out the hdr scenes are missing a lot of detail and is simply blown out.

When i swipe from one screen saver to another the details show up for a split second and then gets blown out immediately.

I took a video while I swipe through the screen savers and then took screenshots.

This is the frame with all the detail.

And this is how the screen saver looks after a split second.

There is a lot of details missing from the bright areas. There is no details on the cloud.
Also the color is also missing all the pop.

If any one have an apple tv 4k, can you please post a picture of this screen saver on the projector. I am curious to see if this an issue with my protector or this is an issue with all models.

I can see similar pattern in a lot of screen savers. So i now realize why I find hdr mode lacking.


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Quote:
Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
I am amazed by the sdr performance of this projector but I always found the hdr to be somewhat lacking.

Today while swiping through the hdr screen savers I found out the hdr scenes are missing a lot of detail and is simply blown out.

When i swipe from one screen saver to another the details show up for a split second and then gets blown out immediately.

I took a video while I swipe through the screen savers and then took screenshots.

This is the frame with all the detail.

And this is how the screen saver looks after a split second.

There is a lot of details missing from the bright areas. There is no details on the cloud.
Also the color is also missing all the pop.

If any one have an apple tv 4k, can you please post a picture of this screen saver on the projector. I am curious to see if this an issue with my protector or this is an issue with all models.

I can see similar pattern in a lot of screen savers. So i now realize why I find hdr mode lacking.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


This has been a complaint about HDR on all projectors not just the HT2550. See my post above about HDR and nits.

Honestly this is easy to remedy. A small reduction to the white balance control (contrast) will bring out highlight detail without unduly effecting contrast. If you have the ability to do this in your source (as I do on my X800) I recommend doing it there.

Again, this is a compromise due to the lower nit output of the projector. The BenQ tends towards a brighter presentation but the mapping isn’t going to get it right 100% of the time. A little adjustment goes a long way.

What to do if you find yourself stuck with no hope of rescue:
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post #502 of 509 Old Yesterday, 11:42 AM
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Have you tried going into the Advanced Settings and adjusting the Color Gamut to BT709 while in HDR mode?
That's a great idea! I feel like I'm going to lose some of the magic to tone mapping, but it's definitely worth testing! I'll try it and report back.
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Chris Eberle’s testing of the HT2550 seems to reveal exactly what you are seeing with your own eyes right down to those more orangish yellows.
Wow! You're right! This is actually a really useful guide to correcting the colors myself. I'll try playing with this and compare my adjusted HDR to SDR while playing HDR content.
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As for 3D— try running through your rec709 test patterns while in forced 3D mode and see if a bump in brightness doesn’t help bring out some more shadow detail.
Ya, if you start to bring up brightness or gamma, it gets even more washed out. I can't seem to strike a reasonable (and I promise I'm not being picky here) balance between not horribly washed out and seeing details.
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Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
If any one have an apple tv 4k, can you please post a picture of this screen saver on the projector. I am curious to see if this an issue with my protector or this is an issue with all models.
I do and I'll try it when I get home to do the other testing.
Thanks so much for the ideas guys!
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post #503 of 509 Old Yesterday, 11:46 AM
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Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
That's a great idea! I feel like I'm going to lose some of the magic to tone mapping, but it's definitely worth testing! I'll try it and report back.



Wow! You're right! This is actually a really useful guide to correcting the colors myself. I'll try playing with this and compare my adjusted HDR to SDR while playing HDR content.



Ya, if you start to bring up brightness or gamma, it gets even more washed out. I can't seem to strike a reasonable (and I promise I'm not being picky here) balance between not horribly washed out and seeing details.



I do and I'll try it when I get home to do the other testing.

Thanks so much for the ideas guys!


You bet. I think you’ll be very happy with that one Color Gamut change.
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Originally Posted by sage11x View Post
This has been a complaint about HDR on all projectors not just the HT2550. See my post above about HDR and nits.
Honestly this is easy to remedy. A small reduction to the white balance control (contrast) will bring out highlight detail without unduly effecting contrast. If you have the ability to do this in your source (as I do on my X800) I recommend doing it there.
Yes, I will definitely give this a try and report back. And will also try to force BT709 while in HDR mode and see if that changes anything.

Anyway in my case, as soon as the screensaver switches ( since I am swiping between them ) the first few frames renders really nice. They have all the details and better color.
But within few frames the details progressively disappear as the screen gets brighter and brighter.
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post #505 of 509 Old Yesterday, 08:58 PM
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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
You bet. I think you’ll be very happy with that one Color Gamut change.
I hate to say it, but it DOES look better to my eye. In fact, it totally solves the HDR problem. There's a thorn in my mind picking at me about the fact that I'm losing some of the image information to software tone mapping (Plex or Infuse). Then again, I suppose I would be losing even more to a projector that can't show me all of 2020. I guess I'll keep going with this SDR business and see if I forget about the thorn.
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Originally Posted by jbnpaul View Post
But within few frames the details progressively disappear as the screen gets brighter and brighter.
Ok, I tested and on HDR mode, mine definitely does this a little bit. It's honestly not bad to my eye. It doesn't look overly washed out. However, I can definitely see more detail in those first few darker frames. With SDR mode, it only looks slightly better. Then again, my issue with HDR was only color accuracy, not washed-out-ness.
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post #506 of 509 Old Yesterday, 09:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Ashkaan View Post
I hate to say it, but it DOES look better to my eye. In fact, it totally solves the HDR problem. There's a thorn in my mind picking at me about the fact that I'm losing some of the image information to software tone mapping (Plex or Infuse). Then again, I suppose I would be losing even more to a projector that can't show me all of 2020. I guess I'll keep going with this SDR business and see if I forget about the thorn.



Ok, I tested and on HDR mode, mine definitely does this a little bit. It's honestly not bad to my eye. It doesn't look overly washed out. However, I can definitely see more detail in those first few darker frames. With SDR mode, it only looks slightly better. Then again, my issue with HDR was only color accuracy, not washed-out-ness.


Just to be clear, changing the Color Gamut to BT709 is not synonymous with putting it into SDR. In fact I would argue that BT 709 mode is better map to HDR content than BT2020 since this project can display most of 709. But Sage is better suited to revisit that topic

Glad it helped!!


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Originally Posted by scottyroo View Post
In fact I would argue that BT 709 mode is better map to HDR content than BT2020 since this project can display most of 709.

709 appears to be even more washed out in my case.

Here are the two images with 709 and 2020.



I can't find contrast controls on apple tv. But reducing contrast on the projector doesn't help much as well. But I can see more details as the picture is getting darker.



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post #508 of 509 Old Yesterday, 10:15 PM
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Have you tried another source. I had ht2550 for couple days and movies in HDR looked stunning. I watched jumanji welcome to the jungle, lucy and night school. I have Sony x800 and nvidia shield. No apple tv.
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post #509 of 509 Old Yesterday, 11:09 PM
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Originally Posted by MJ1 View Post
Have you tried another source. I had ht2550 for couple days and movies in HDR looked stunning. I watched jumanji welcome to the jungle, lucy and night school. I have Sony x800 and nvidia shield. No apple tv.


The other hdr capable source I have is an Xbox x. The behavior is pretty much the same, but apple tv is worse in comparison. I prefer sdr on both.


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