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post #1 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 05:34 PM - Thread Starter
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Montreal: Only channel my tv won’t tune into has the strongest signal ?!?

I’m at my wits end. My tv detects 10 local stations and 9 of them work flawlessly. But whenever I try to tune into channel 17.1 the tv reboots itself and returns to the last channel successfully tuned.

I don’t get it. Four years ago I used the same antenna with the same tv set up in the same position of the same appartement and this one channel used to come in strong and reliably, the best of the local stations. I’ve asked around and neighbors all agree channel 17.1 has excellent reception in this part of town.

Any idea what could cause this? The tv’s tuner seems in order since it works fine with every other channel be they on the vhf or uhf band. Hell, when it scans for channels it detects a strong enough signal to add it to the list.


Please help.
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post #2 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 07:13 PM
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The transmitting tower for 17.1 is in a different location (Olympic Stadium) than the rest of your local channels (Circle Stone/Mount Royal).

What TV are you using?

Do you have another TV to substitute for a test with that antenna?

What does your TVFool report look like?
http://www.tvfool.com/index.php?opti...pper&Itemid=29

Any construction changes in the last 4 years could have changed the multipath reflections presented to your indoor antenna. Try different orientations at different antenna locations.

What antenna are you using?

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-28-2018 at 07:55 PM.
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post #3 of 23 Old 10-28-2018, 10:02 PM - Thread Starter
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My tv is an old Pioneer plasma: 111-fd pro, the antenna are cheap Nexxtech rabbit ears I believe were bought from The Source about 6-8 years ago.

You’re right about the location of this station’s immiter, it is in the opposite direction of all other local immiters.

But here’s the rub: my antenna sits on a window sill facing north. Away from every single immiter in the area.

I was expecting the station that is renowned to have the strongest signal in town to be easily picked up. I find it strange that it's in fact the only one that won’t tune in properly.

I have a long coax cable I can use to move the antenna around for tests. Thats what I’ll do this week. I’ll write back with my findings. Will also check out this tvfool site.

Thanks for the help.
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post #4 of 23 Old 10-29-2018, 07:12 AM
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Thread title edited. Please read posts that say READ BEFORE POSTING ....before posting.

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post #5 of 23 Old 10-30-2018, 08:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVideoPhilia View Post
You’re right about the location of this station’s immiter, it is in the opposite direction of all other local immiters.

But here’s the rub: my antenna sits on a window sill facing north. Away from every single immiter in the area.

I was expecting the station that is renowned to have the strongest signal in town to be easily picked up. I find it strange that it's in fact the only one that won’t tune in properly.
We are now at the point in our analysis of your problem that we need to have a better idea of where you are located in relation to the local transmitters, because a small change in location can make a big difference in signal strength. A TVFool report of the exact address or coordinates would show the relative strengths, or you could give me your address in a PM to protect your identity.

Does your antenna contain an amp or are you using a separate amp?

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-30-2018 at 09:33 AM.
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post #6 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 06:20 AM
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Folks, I don't think this is a reception problem. Read the original message again, particularly this part.



Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVideoPhilia View Post
But whenever I try to tune into channel 17.1 the tv reboots itself

A TV rebooting itself wouldn't come from poor reception, I wouldn't expect. It would more likely come from a problem with the signal that the TV is not handling well (unless there was something seriously wrong with the TV). Unfortunately, without an analysis of the signal from TSReader or a similar tool, it's impossible to know what's going on.


- Trip
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post #7 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 07:17 AM
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I wonder if the OP has ever run a firmware update on the Pioneer. It's been longer than 8 years, but I recall a number of early sets and tuners going into reboot loops based on broadcast flags. I got a pennies-on-the-dollar deal on three Sony flat panels that refused to tune OTA. Firmware updates fixed all three and they're still in service.

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post #8 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 07:27 AM
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That's an interesting possibility. He didn't detail the reboot. I have a tuner that goes to the next channel when the channel I punched in is too weak that day.

In post #2 I did ask him if he had another TV to try.

He gave me some details by PM that might help. Here is his TVFool report:
Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVideoPhilia
Had a hard time trying to copy this on my phone...

http://www.tvfool.com/?option=com_wrapper&Itemid=29&q=id%3d9038beec3fc30 6

I just tried setting up my antenna in every room and turns out the one spot that detects the most channels is its original position on a window sill facing west by northwest.

I’m using an external amp by RCA: AMP1450R.

Antenna currently facing 300 deg

I’m on the second floor so the antenna must be ~25’ off the ground.
This is his antenna:
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	Nexxtech Rabbit Ears TV Antenna_1.jpg
Views:	4
Size:	58.7 KB
ID:	2476008  

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 10-31-2018 at 07:38 AM.
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post #9 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 08:26 AM - Thread Starter
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About the tv reboot; if any of you have ever used a Pioneer plasma set you might have noticed the screen displays a message upon startup that says "Starting up. Please wait". This same message is displayed when I try to tune channel 17.1.

About the tv; I might have updated the firmware when I first bought the set during the summer of 2010. Just checked and tv says Software Version : 0901-0201 & Hardware Version : 0x351.

About the antenna; not quite what you see in rabbit73's post. My antenna only has the rabbit ears, no UHF loop and no dial.


Many thanks for all your help!
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post #10 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 10:43 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Trip in VA View Post
Folks, I don't think this is a reception problem.



A TV rebooting itself wouldn't come from poor reception, I wouldn't expect. It would more likely come from a problem with the signal that the TV is not handling well (unless there was something seriously wrong with the TV). Unfortunately, without an analysis of the signal from TSReader or a similar tool, it's impossible to know what's going on.


- Trip
Totally agree.


When I was using my RCA F38310, the internal tuner (DTC100) would always have a problem with two channels. If tuned to those channels, the TV would power off, restart and tune to the first available channel. Fortunately (for me)... both channels were Spanish, so I just removed them from the channel list.


Sometime, internal tuners and PSIP don't play well together.



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post #11 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 11:28 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVideoPhilia View Post
About the antenna; not quite what you see in rabbit73's post. My antenna only has the rabbit ears, no UHF loop and no dial.
Uh-Oh!

It is the real channel number (also called physical channel or RF channel) that determines what antenna is needed.

VHF-Low, real channels 2-6
VHF-High, real channels 7-13
UHF, real channels 14-51

The virtual channel number (like 5.1 or 5-1) is a holdover from the analog TV days to maintain the identity of the station, and is what the TV displays. By convention, the virtual channel number is given in the decimal form to keep it from being confused with the real channel number.

Most of your channels are UHF, but your antenna is designed for VHF. You might have better reception with an antenna that is designed for VHF and UHF.

Your report shows very strong signals, but it assumes your antenna will be outside and in the clear, which it isn't.

Signals that strong will overload an amp and your tuner, but your signals are actually weaker because your antenna is inside, and facing in the wrong direction. Your antenna is probably picking up only reflections of your desired signals. It might be picking up some signals through the building depending upon the type of construction. Aluminum siding, stucco mesh, or concrete with steel rebars will block TV signals, as will trees in the signal path.

I suggest you try an antenna designed for VHF and UHF.
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post #12 of 23 Old 10-31-2018, 12:45 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
I suggest you try an antenna designed for VHF and UHF.
Will do. I’ll let you know how it goes.

Thanks again!
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post #13 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 01:38 AM
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You are only a few miles away from Towers.....with exceeding HIGH Signal Levels.....which you make WORSE using 10-12+ dB Gain RCA Preamp which COULD be Saturating TV Tuner, blocking reception on some channels and NOT on others....so perhaps DTV detects this and shuts down:
http://voxxintl.zendesk.com/hc/en-u...450R-Amplifier
http://www.rcaantennas.net/search/?...P1450R#manuals

You should remove the RCA Preamp.....you do NOT "Need" it....and do NOT use an Amplified VHF/UHF Antenna.

Q: Doesn't your Nexxtech Rabbit-ears Antenna include BOTH Collapsible Whips for VHF....AND a LOOP for UHF, like the following....and hopefully NOT Amplified:
http://www.kijiji.ca/v-electronics/...-fm/1381891846

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post #14 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 09:14 AM - Thread Starter
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Thanks for the input. I’m on my way to the electronics shop to pick up a VHF/UHF antenna. Now I know to steer clear of the amplified ones. Will test as soon as I get back and share results here.
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post #15 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 09:33 AM - Thread Starter
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Just bought an ”Anson decor” indoor UHF/VHF/FM passive antenna for 10$.

Specs:

VHF : 47-230 MHz
UHF : 470-862 MHz
Impedance : 75 Ohms

Fingers crossed.

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post #16 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 10:39 AM - Thread Starter
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The new antenna does nothing, well, new.

Same channels are being picked up and virtual channel 17.1(RF 26) still makes the tv reboot.

Back to square one.
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post #17 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVideoPhilia View Post
The new antenna does nothing, well, new.

Same channels are being picked up and virtual channel 17.1(RF 26) still makes the tv reboot.

Back to square one.
Perhaps a call and a chat with the station engineer may be helpful. Describe the problem and suggestions provided from AVS.



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post #18 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 11:08 AM
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Sorry to hear that. I assume that it has a loop for UHF and you tried it with and without the preamp.

Do you have another TV to try with your antenna?

Since your antenna is not able to face the transmitting tower for 17.1, my guess is that you are only receiving reflections of the signal from objects in front of the antenna. It is probable that the signal is strong enough, but the multipath reflections cause more errors than can be corrected by your TV. This was the same problem I had with channel 42 because my antenna was aimed in the opposite direction.



I went across the street and set up an antenna aimed at the transmitter; and got a good signal:





Do you have any windows available that face the transmitter, even just for a test?

What is the location of your apartment in the building, the NW corner?

What type of construction is the building?

Can you show us a photo of what the antenna sees out that window?

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-01-2018 at 11:38 AM.
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post #19 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 12:52 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ratman View Post
Perhaps a call and a chat with the station engineer may be helpful. Describe the problem and suggestions provided from AVS.
I’ll keep that in mind.
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post #20 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 01:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AudioVideoPhilia View Post
About the tv; I might have updated the firmware when I first bought the set during the summer of 2010. Just checked and tv says Software Version : 0901-0201 & Hardware Version : 0x351.
Latest version seems to be 0905-0401, FWIW.

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post #21 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 01:19 PM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Sorry to hear that. I assume that it has a loop for UHF and you tried it with and without the preamp.
Yes and yes.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Do you have another TV to try with your antenna?
No.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Do you have any windows available that face the transmitter, even just for a test?
Yes. Opposite side of the apartment window and sliding glass doors facing southeast @ 120 degrees. I’ll try that tomorrow.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
What is the location of your apartment in the building, the NW corner?
Second floor near the middle of a six wide layout. Windows and sliding doors facing 300 degrees northwest and 120 degrees southeast.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
What type of construction is the building?
Concrete slab floors, brick and mortar exterior, drywall on steel studs dividing walls.

Quote:
Originally Posted by rabbit73 View Post
Can you show us a photo of what the antenna sees out that window?
N-O facing: parking lot across the street in front of mostly two and a few three storied duildings for as far as I can see.

S-E facing: a single maple tree about 10’ from the balcony(lost most of its leaves by now). Behind that there are small bungalows with some trees and a few 3-4 stories construction. Only “high rise” building is a hospital a few blocks back about 8-10 stories tall.
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post #22 of 23 Old 11-01-2018, 02:18 PM
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Thank you for the additional details.

Can you borrow a TV for a test?

Good luck with your tests; I'm running out of ideas.

The title of your thread says:

Montreal: Only channel my tv won’t tune into has the strongest signal ?!?

but you would need a signal level meter to find out how strong it actually is now.

Quote:
Second floor near the middle of a six wide layout. Windows and sliding doors facing 300 degrees northwest and 120 degrees southeast.
Sounds like the signals have to go through a lot of walls.

Quote:
S-E facing: a single maple tree about 10’ from the balcony(lost most of its leaves by now). Behind that there are small bungalows with some trees and a few 3-4 stories construction. Only “high rise” building is a hospital a few blocks back about 8-10 stories tall.
Can you setup a temporary antenna on the balcony?

If you can not measure it, you can not improve it.
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Last edited by rabbit73; 11-01-2018 at 05:30 PM.
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post #23 of 23 Old 11-03-2018, 02:31 AM
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Sounding more and more like the Software Version in the Plasma might be the culprit. Have you updated it yet???
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