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post #31 of 127 Old 01-07-2015, 10:48 AM
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Although NOT happening in medoug's case, it is possible for a SINGLE, EXTREMELY STRONG signal to completely SATURATE the Preamp (or the attached Tuner), COMPLETELY blocking reception on ALL frequencies. CECB Converter Boxes were MANDATED to operate with a SINGLE strong signal as high as -5 dBm....in a NAB sponsored test by MSTV, the actual performance was between 0 dBm and +2 dBm on the seven CECB's actually tested...unfortunately there are NO mandatory specs for HDTVs and OTA STBs....so YMMV:
http://www.nabfastroad.org/NABSTVDig...report.doc.pdf
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post #32 of 127 Old 01-07-2015, 07:17 PM
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Actually, I now live in the very small town of Sherrill, IA. Zipcode is 52073. I'm fortunate that I live there as it is very high up compared to most of nearby Dubuque. Sherrill does have a large hill/mound next to the town which could start to affect/block my signals, but I think I'm just far enough south to just skirt by it for Waterloo/Cedar Rapids, IA station reception. Right now I won't get virtual channel 2 (real frequency on UHF 51) as I have separate UHF and VHF antennas and no rotor installed yet. My UHF antenna is pointed to Madison where everything is UHF. On my Hi-VHF antenna, I get channels 7, 9, and 12 in Iowa.

When Spring comes, I'd like to put up a tower and attach my rotor. I recently moved to this new location and the ground was too frozen to set anything up outdoors. Without the tower, I think I'll lose channels 7, 9, and 12 when the leaves get on the trees as I've currently got things set up at the gable ends of my attached garage among the rafters which doesn't provide enough elevation. Even with the tower and rotor, I still might never get the virtual channel 2 due to the previously mentioned hill/mound nearby, but I do have some hope after talking to my neighbor with an antenna tower.

The nearby hill/mound does have a couple towers on it which might be the source of some of the FM interference. I'm pretty sure they are primarily WiFi and cellular transmitters though as I've never heard about any FM radio station broadcasting from there.

If a full FM trap is needed for my location, could I consider instead a HLSJ splitter instead and just cap off the low VHF port since I have no nearby stations transmitting 2-6? I ask because I can get one cheaper than a full FM trap after shipping cost is included. I could still use the FM trap in the RCA pre-amp as well.
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post #33 of 127 Old 01-07-2015, 07:34 PM
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post #34 of 127 Old 01-07-2015, 08:17 PM
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Yes, you need a good trap like an HLSJ to address KNSY 89.7 FM. The 2nd harmonic falls right on top of VHF 7.
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post #35 of 127 Old 01-08-2015, 05:50 AM
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FMFool doesn't create click-able links so you have to first save, then upload the image of your FM plot. I attached one for your general area.

Either the HLSJ (cap unused port with a terminator) or the A-D FM filter will work fine.
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post #36 of 127 Old 01-08-2015, 01:53 PM
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So...about 35-mi SE of Prairie du Chien. I get about the same results as ProjectSHO89 after using TVFool to tri-laterate medoug's location to within 0.1-mi and using THAT LAT/LONG in FMFool. I found that he's just North of Sherrill, IA about 0.75-mi East of KNSY-FM (KDUG-FM in Google-Earth Transmitter Icons). He has TWO Extremely Strong FM signals on 89.7 MHz (-10.2 dBm) and 92.5 MHz (-16.5 dBm), with a VERY Strong FM signal on 105.3 MHz (-22.4 dBm). After that, our tri-lateration errors caused some differences. medoug's next strongest was 97.3 MHz (-22.7 dBm), whereas I got -41.5 dBm for that station...WOW...only 0.1-mi difference between our guesstimates.

Using my DTV INTERFERENCE Spread Sheet Calculator, I found that the following Channels are affected:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/files/ota [Item #9 ]

2nd Harmonics (which is 400 MHz Bandwidth):
89.7 MHz --> Ch7
92.5 MHz --> Ch8
105.3 MHz --> Ch13
97.3 MHz --> Ch10

3rd Order IMD (which is 600 MHz Bandwidth):
89.7 + 92.5 MHz --> Ch 6, 7 & 8
89.7 + 92.5 + 105.3 MHz --> Ch 5, 6, 7, 8, 10 & 13
89.7 + 92.5 +105.3 + 97.3 MHz --> Ch5, Ch6 & Entire Hi-VHF Band

BTW: Using HLSJ as an FM Band Filter also attenuates weak Ch4 (CBS) signal and even weaker Ch50 (CBS) probably can not be received reliably. I would recommend connecting the Lo-VHF (Ch2-6) port of the HLSJ to an Antenna with at least moderate Gain on Ch4...perhaps starting with the Lo-VHF Hourglass-Loop, a VERY simple DIY Project:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops [Items 26, 27 or 28.]

Last edited by holl_ands; 01-08-2015 at 02:17 PM.
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post #37 of 127 Old 01-08-2015, 05:18 PM
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Hey, I just ball-parked it until the distance and heading was within a quarter of a mile. Didn't take more than 20 seconds to get in the area, figured that was close enough for FM.
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post #38 of 127 Old 01-08-2015, 07:06 PM
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Long Time Retired....gotta keep my mind busy while watching mindless daytime TV....so I got LOTS of time....driven by OCD of course.....

Actually, the first time thru, I only did the usual bi-lateration.....when I saw that we differed by a tiny bit, I checked a third direction and found that I had been lucky....spot on, all three TVFool distances in TVFool "ON-LINE MAP" Option (after adjusting HOME Icon location) matched his posted TVFool Report (to nearest 0.1-mi granularity of TVFool)....and updated my post to read "tri-lateration".

Last edited by holl_ands; 01-08-2015 at 07:16 PM.
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post #39 of 127 Old 01-09-2015, 06:26 PM
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Thanks guys for all the detailed analysis. It sounds like I'll be able to get Channel 7 shortly with all of your help.

Quote:
Originally Posted by holl_ands View Post
BTW: Using HLSJ as an FM Band Filter also attenuates weak Ch4 (CBS) signal and even weaker Ch50 (CBS) probably can not be received reliably. I would recommend connecting the Lo-VHF (Ch2-6) port of the HLSJ to an Antenna with at least moderate Gain on Ch4...perhaps starting with the Lo-VHF Hourglass-Loop, a VERY simple DIY Project:
http://imageevent.com/holl_ands/loops [Items 26, 27 or 28.]
Since I installed the RCA preamp, I am receiving WISC Ch.3 (real channel 50) reliably. Are you suggesting that I should make a Lo-VHF hourglass-loop antenna pointed just to the Quad-cities to also get Ch. 4 as a CBS backup? I wouldn't consider buying a Lo-VHF antenna just for 1 duplicate network channel, but I might enjoy the challenge of making one as my Hi-VHF antenna is homemade. (It'll be awhile before I get around to another project as I've got a lot of unpacking yet to do since my recent move.)

I do hope that I will be able to receive Ch. 2 KGAN (real channel 29) for CBS once I get an attenna up in the Spring at least for another local news station from Iowa. (Promising since my neighor gets KGAN with her tower.)

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post #40 of 127 Old 01-09-2015, 11:01 PM
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Whether you WANT to try to receive Ch4 (CBS) depends on what you perceive you WANT...."Backup" reception from another town might be useful if your local towers are prone to lose power...or MIGHT go off the air if hit by say a Tornado. Perhaps local news, traffic reports or a non-Network program from that area are of interest to you.....or perhaps you can watch a Game blacked out in your area....it's all up to you to determine whether there is anything of value in adding Ch4....and whether it might be worth the hassle of building a Lo-VHF Antenna....which might start out as a simple Hourglass-Loop....and evolve into one with multiple Reflector Rods.
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post #41 of 127 Old 01-10-2015, 08:39 PM
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Would the use of a Lo-VHF antenna with a HLSJ to receive channel 4 allow the FM signals (which are causing my problems with channel 7) to pass thru since they are close to channel 6 frequency? I guess I don' know the frequency at which the signal is split between the Lo-VHF and Hi-VHF and how much the FM signals between the two would be attenuated.
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post #42 of 127 Old 01-11-2015, 07:24 AM
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The HLSJ would pass FM almost completely unattenuated (perhaps a fraction of a dB). If you elect to go for that low VHF channel, you will still need the full band FM filter.

82-88 MHz is the range for channel 6. FM radio "officially" starts at 88.1 MHz although many FM tuners can tune a bit lower. The audio carrier of channel 6 can usually be tuned in around 87.9 which still allows reception of analog 6 broadcasts on most FM tuners. Do a Google search on "Franken-FM" for continuing examples.
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post #43 of 127 Old 01-11-2015, 09:30 AM
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So is the HLSJ still an effective solution to filter out the interfering FM stations while receiving my Hi-VHF channels as long as the Lo-VHF side is capped and no Lo-VHF antenna attached? (I have no real desire to receive any Lo-VHF channels.)

Thanx,
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post #44 of 127 Old 01-11-2015, 10:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by medoug View Post
So is the HLSJ still an effective solution to filter out the interfering FM stations while receiving my Hi-VHF channels as long as the Lo-VHF side is capped and no Lo-VHF antenna attached?
Yes, the HLSJ is a good choice if the Lo side has no antenna attached to it. I have used them many times as FM traps.
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post #45 of 127 Old 01-11-2015, 05:58 PM
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ADTECH measured the Frequency Response for both the Pico-Macom and Hollands versions of the HLSJ (Hi-VHF/Lo-VHF Diplexer):
http://www.digitalhome.ca/forum/show....php?p=1396123

On the Lo-VHF Port, Insertion Loss for the tested Holland HLSV unit was very low on Ch2-6, increasing across the FM Band to about 3-4 dB Insertion Loss on 108 MHz (Top of FM Band), whereas the measured Pico-Macom unit only had about 1 dB Insertion Loss.

On the Hi-VHF Port (actually Ch7 thru UHF), the Holland HLSJ had at least 25 dB Insertion Loss across the FM Band, increasing to as much as 40 dB in the upper part of the FM Band, whereas the measured Pico-Macom unit had at least 28 dB Insertion Loss, increasing to as much as 40 dB in the middle of the FM Band and reducing to about 30 dB on 108 MHz.

So YES, they are both effective as FULL BAND FM FILTERS.....but they also Eliminate Ch2-6 if that is an issue for you.

PS: When used as say a Band Splitter, the Pico-Macom unit has more Insertion Loss in the upper part of the FM Band....if THAT is an issue for you [although I highly recommend a separate Antenna for FM Band to avoid TV Overload issues and reduce overall Loss.]

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post #46 of 127 Old 01-25-2015, 01:31 PM
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Thanks guys for all the help. I now receive Channel 7 using this preamp. You guys are awesome!

I purchased a Pico Macom Tru Spec HLSJ from ATV Research (I highly recommend them for price, shipping, and customer service) to filter out the entire FM band (along with my unused Ch. 2 thru Ch. 6). I terminated the VHF-Lo port and fed the VHF-Hi port into my RCA TVPRAMP1R Preamp. As you had all pointed out, this eliminated the offending 2nd harmonic FM frequency 89.7 which the RCA preamp's trap was not blocking.

Not only am I receiving channel 7, but it appears that I have removed some sporadic pixellation on my other VHF-Hi channels 9 and 12.

Thanks again,
medoug.
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post #47 of 127 Old 01-25-2015, 03:57 PM
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Thanks for reporting back & congratulations!!
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post #48 of 127 Old 01-24-2018, 09:38 PM
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If I want to hook this up to 2 Tv's, where would I put the injector?


Like this?


antenna > preamp > injector > splitter > tv1 & tv2

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post #49 of 127 Old 01-24-2018, 09:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
If I want to hook this up to 2 Tv's, where would I put the injector?

Like this?

antenna > preamp > injector > splitter > tv1 & tv2
Yes, like that.

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post #50 of 127 Old 01-25-2018, 05:03 AM
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If you use a DC-Pass "Satellite" splitter, you can pass power through it and then you have the option of having the injector at either of the TV set locations. This is your option if you happen to have your splitter in a location where power is not conveniently located.
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post #51 of 127 Old 01-28-2018, 12:46 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ProjectSHO89 View Post
If you use a DC-Pass "Satellite" splitter, you can pass power through it and then you have the option of having the injector at either of the TV set locations. This is your option if you happen to have your splitter in a location where power is not conveniently located.
I have a Holland DPD2 (The DPD2 diplexer is specifically designed for Dish Network’s™ DP44 installations, requiring continuous 2 amp power passing. This diplexer provides a high performance, lower insertion loss, high return loss and increased stop band isolation. The DPD2 provides a more reliable combining solution for the increased demands of the DishPro Plus installations, which may require 2 amps of current).

Could that work?

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post #52 of 127 Old 01-28-2018, 01:38 PM
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Also, does anyone know the difference (if any) between the R and the Z model? Which one is better?

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post #53 of 127 Old 01-28-2018, 02:54 PM
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The DPD2 is not a splitter although it may be used as a power inserter.

R and Z model of what?
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post #54 of 127 Old 01-28-2018, 03:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by projectsho89 View Post
r and z model of what?
rca tvpramp1

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post #55 of 127 Old 01-29-2018, 06:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
rca tvpramp1
I'm not sure they're any different
Amazon's RCA tvpramp1z webpage features a .pdf manual for the tvpramp1r.
I have both, and they look exactly the same on the outside.
Not anxious to tear them apart and see if they're different on the inside.
I wonder if they're just a different production run maybe?
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post #56 of 127 Old 01-30-2018, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
Also, does anyone know the difference (if any) between the R and the Z model? Which one is better?
I wrote RCA a while back about the difference between -r & -z and this is the response I got from RCA:

"Thank you for contacting us. No, the letter on the end of our model numbers signifies the version of packaging but the unit inside is the same.


Have a great day!

RCA Antenna Engineering"
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post #57 of 127 Old 02-28-2018, 11:56 PM
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Don't know if there is a bad batch going around but sent back my second TVPRAMP1R in disgust. I'm done with them. I don't know what's of cheaper quality the preamp itself or the power injector. It's not too bad when it's actually working but.....

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post #58 of 127 Old 03-01-2018, 05:05 AM
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Quote:
I don't know what's of cheaper quality the preamp itself or the power injector.
What do you expect for something that sells for only $20-25 at retail? At that retail price point, they probably cost about $3 FOB China.
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post #59 of 127 Old 03-01-2018, 09:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ncsercs View Post
Don't know if there is a bad batch going around but sent back my second TVPRAMP1R in disgust. I'm done with them. I don't know what's of cheaper quality the preamp itself or the power injector. It's not too bad when it's actually working but.....
Where did you buy them? Some dealers are selling returns without checking them.

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post #60 of 127 Old 03-01-2018, 10:05 AM
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One was on eBay, the other on Amazon.

Just ordered a Winegard LNA200S Boost XT - we'll see how that works.

Nick

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