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post #31 of 121 Old 12-08-2018, 04:30 AM
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Originally Posted by VegaMan View Post
any chance for the hornresp inputs to determine suitability for other drivers?
i think this is a cool use of a 1/4 wave resonator.
this is the thread where the thing was first posted. toward the end there are some additional images including the hornresp.

http://01966633.com/forum/155-d...s-cheap-2.html

edit: oops, that one has a higher tuning.

here you go:

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post #32 of 121 Old 12-08-2018, 04:41 AM
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might be worth noting that this cab doesn't really work with the 460HO and UM18 drivers. they just give a huge narrow peak around 70hz. not a smooth response at all. will have to find something else for those drivers. :-)

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post #33 of 121 Old 12-08-2018, 05:10 AM
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pa460 gives interesting results in a 3/4 sized variant with a 20hz-ish tune
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post #34 of 121 Old 12-12-2018, 08:09 PM
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What are your collective thoughts on the pluses and minuses of this design versus a full marty? The marty has one advantage that I know of -- you can buy an off the shelf box that's easy to put together. The devastator has its own advantage -- it hides the driver, which will protect it from teenagers running around my theater room.

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post #35 of 121 Old 12-12-2018, 08:31 PM - Thread Starter
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What are you thinking of loading the full Marty with? I pushed the Stormbreaker a bit for practicing some music. It is nuts, but I am mostly in this for driver concealment. The added sensitivity and potential for cranking music to another level is just icing on the cake
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post #36 of 121 Old 12-13-2018, 06:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
What are you thinking of loading the full Marty with? I pushed the Stormbreaker a bit for practicing some music. It is nuts, but I am mostly in this for driver concealment. The added sensitivity and potential for cranking music to another level is just icing on the cake
If I were to buy full marty flat packs, I think I'd load them with UM 18-22s. I've also looked at building ported cabinets for B&C drivers, but this one caught my eye because, as you said, it protects the drivers. As a layperson, I don't really understand the trade offs associated with one choice versus another. For example, this design is tuned to 19 Hz. Does that create performance trade offs versus a design tuned at 17? These are all just hypothetical numbers with no real world meaning to me. And I certainly don't have the time or money to build three or four different designs to test them out.

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post #37 of 121 Old 12-13-2018, 06:31 AM - Thread Starter
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This calculated 1w1m on the Devastator





Calculated 1w1m on the UM18 full Marty


On the bottom end the sensitivity is fairly close and the curve down to 10hz is close. Once we start heading north of 20hz the Devastator finds all sorts of efficiency. What this translates to in the HT setting will be slam factor. The UM18 will need something to assist it in the mid bass if you want to feel gunshots in the chest. The Devastator will have mid bass to the point it needs to be settled down. If you dump 2000 watts into each one, both will be close to 120db at 20hz. At 50Hz the UM will be around 120db with 2000 watts, but the Devastator will be close to 130db at 50Hz with 2000 watts.
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post #38 of 121 Old 12-13-2018, 06:50 AM
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If you dump 2000watts into a UM18 and ask it to play 50hz you are going to smoke the voice coil.


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post #39 of 121 Old 12-13-2018, 07:02 AM - Thread Starter
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A UM puffing magic smoke from attempting to push mid bass has happened. If you do a UM you will want to do something for handling mid bass, like a 31Hz tuned VBSS.

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post #40 of 121 Old 12-13-2018, 12:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Red Five View Post
Calculated 1w1m on the UM18 full Marty
Use the Lossy Le feature in hornresp to get a more accurate representation of what the UM18 will do in this cab. wont be such a clean graph.
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post #41 of 121 Old 12-14-2018, 08:03 AM
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I would appreciate guidance on three more topics if I haven't worn out my welcome yet with my subwoofer ignorance: (1) How do you mount the speaker? Do you just screw it in from the back? Do you need gasket tape between the wood and the front of the speaker's rim? (2) How much do you need to shave off the panel in front of the driver to allow room for excursion? (3) How do you recommend powering a pair of these?

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post #42 of 121 Old 12-14-2018, 10:07 AM - Thread Starter
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I would appreciate guidance on three more topics if I haven't worn out my welcome yet with my subwoofer ignorance: (1) How do you mount the speaker? Do you just screw it in from the back? Do you need gasket tape between the wood and the front of the speaker's rim? (2) How much do you need to shave off the panel in front of the driver to allow room for excursion? (3) How do you recommend powering a pair of these?

It will be from the back. I am going to cut 8 2in chunks of 2x4 and glue them to the front of the baffle. That will give the #8 screws something to dig into that will not go anywhere. The front braces might get in the way a little bit, but that can be worked around. The B&C has a rubbery material on the front side of the flange, it should make for a good seal against the MDF. I was going to run that past John though before I mounted it... If you took an 1 1/4 plus the 3/4 from the MDF would give you 50mm of travel to the braces, an inch off the braces would be 44mm. The sub would have other problems if pushed that far A jigsaw will do just fine for cutting the MDF off the front braces. An iNuke or NX 6000DSP will have no issue powering a pair of these 4 Ohm or 8 Ohm
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post #43 of 121 Old 12-18-2018, 11:11 AM
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Has anyone completed one of these yet?

I could use some opinions. I have 4 PA460s and was planning on building 2 VBSS under my fronts and 2 near-field behind the couch but now I am tempted to build 4 of these Devastators. I have knee walls (mini attics) on each side of my home on the 2nd floor. I could make 4 cutouts in the living room ceiling, lay them facing down into the room, and cover the holes with some vent covers.

I have 2x6 plus plaster so it is about a 7" path through the ceiling joists into the living room. Will this change the tune or sound?

I know this will limit my placement but it will be a huge bonus hiding them out of sight since this is our living room/kitchen. Please let me know what you think.
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post #44 of 121 Old 12-18-2018, 02:30 PM - Thread Starter
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Has anyone completed one of these yet?

I could use some opinions. I have 4 PA460s and was planning on building 2 VBSS under my fronts and 2 near-field behind the couch but now I am tempted to build 4 of these Devastators. I have knee walls (mini attics) on each side of my home on the 2nd floor. I could make 4 cutouts in the living room ceiling, lay them facing down into the room, and cover the holes with some vent covers.

I have 2x6 plus plaster so it is about a 7" path through the ceiling joists into the living room. Will this change the tune or sound?

I know this will limit my placement but it will be a huge bonus hiding them out of sight since this is our living room/kitchen. Please let me know what you think.

I have not seen a build for one just yet. I know a few members were talking about building in January once the holiday madness subsides. My build is looking like May, potentially later. The 7 inch path could lower the tuning, depending how close the boundaries are to the vent. For a slot port design like a Marty with the floor as a boundary on one side the tune goes down very little, a hertz or so. Having at least two boundaries near the vent, the effect would probably be more, not sure how much more. You could always build one and make a smaller mock up of the joists/ceiling. Then measure the results without destroying the house. That would be the scientific way I would not recommend hammering holes in the ceiling first then asking questions later...

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post #45 of 121 Old 12-18-2018, 05:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by vballbadger View Post
Has anyone completed one of these yet?

I could use some opinions. I have 4 PA460s and was planning on building 2 VBSS under my fronts and 2 near-field behind the couch but now I am tempted to build 4 of these Devastators. I have knee walls (mini attics) on each side of my home on the 2nd floor. I could make 4 cutouts in the living room ceiling, lay them facing down into the room, and cover the holes with some vent covers.

I have 2x6 plus plaster so it is about a 7" path through the ceiling joists into the living room. Will this change the tune or sound?

I know this will limit my placement but it will be a huge bonus hiding them out of sight since this is our living room/kitchen. Please let me know what you think.
I modeled a pa460 in this enclosure, except with an internal width of 19-ish inches instead of the full 24" internal as spec'd. Results look good in the mid band of bass for net gain...gets a little choppy up top, but I think some small mods or gentle eq may handle that fine. The port length would have to be extended from the models in the first post about 9.5". so instead of going towards the driver, id extend it to the back wall and then stub up whatever length was needed.
if the size of the cut through maintains the same area as the mouth, tuning of the resonator goes down. youll get a little more low end, and I mean a little, but youll sacrifice about 2db output near the 80hz-ish mark.
if you make the final exit larger this can change things for the better.
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post #46 of 121 Old 12-19-2018, 04:43 AM
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Ok I am bored and just asked LTD about a comparison of my 21SW152 vs 15HST. And what do you know they both model fine in this design. So will my driver actually fit in this enclosure is the question?

What is the measurement from the baffle to the back panel or access hatch?

If this does fit I will go ahead and build this thing and see what it sounds like. I was hoping to build something tuned a little lower but may just do this design as is. And if it doesnt I may just build it with my Alpine SWS. I have one of those just sitting on a shelf waiting for a new home.

So ya the 15SWS and 15HST work in this design.,
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post #47 of 121 Old 12-19-2018, 05:58 AM - Thread Starter
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Ok I am bored and just asked LTD about a comparison of my 21SW152 vs 15HST. And what do you know they both model fine in this design. So will my driver actually fit in this enclosure is the question?

What is the measurement from the baffle to the back panel or access hatch?

If this does fit I will go ahead and build this thing and see what it sounds like. I was hoping to build something tuned a little lower but may just do this design as is. And if it doesnt I may just build it with my Alpine SWS. I have one of those just sitting on a shelf waiting for a new home.

So ya the 15SWS and 15HST work in this design.,

17.75" from the back of the baffle to the panel. Image 8 in the OP for reference. Please share your impressions if you get around to it

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post #48 of 121 Old 12-19-2018, 06:13 AM
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17.75" from the back of the baffle to the panel. Image 8 in the OP for reference. Please share your impressions if you get around to it
Will do. Will have to change a few things but for the most part looks like a simple build and the driver works. Not the best alignment with this driver but I am ready for something different. Will need a little bit of time as I have been crazy busy and trying to find another house to rent. So that means build a sub to distract me. LOL
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post #49 of 121 Old 12-19-2018, 05:54 PM
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If I ever do another build for my place, 8x of these wpuld be a lot of fun......
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post #50 of 121 Old 12-19-2018, 06:33 PM
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Well looks like i will start a pair. Have my 2 21ds115 drivers (8ohm), all the speakon stuff and other accessories ill need.

Before i start, with a design no bigger than these and the subs i already have, is this the best option for a predominate home theatre setup, some music (rap, hiphop). The charts look good to me, although im not too familiar with horns.

Also, still struggling on mdf or ply. Mdf is cheaper. With ply it looks like ill need an extra sheet. But i expect them to last a long time. Dont think ill need to upgrade soon, shouldnt say that out loud though. Anything will trump my awful Polk PSW350.
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post #51 of 121 Old 12-19-2018, 06:51 PM - Thread Starter
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Well looks like i will start a pair. Have my 2 21ds115 drivers (8ohm), all the speakon stuff and other accessories ill need.



Before i start, with a design no bigger than these and the subs i already have, is this the best option for a predominate home theatre setup, some music (rap, hiphop). The charts look good to me, although im not too familiar with horns.



Also, still struggling on mdf or ply. Mdf is cheaper. With ply it looks like ill need an extra sheet. But i expect them to last a long time. Dont think ill need to upgrade soon, shouldnt say that out loud though. Anything will trump my awful Polk PSW350.
The plywood is great for weight reduction and the dust is not as nasty. It will take moving around better. Cons, cost, not as dense as the MDF, not .75 inches and you need good stuff with no voids. Both are good options though!

The 21DS115 will blow away the Polk, even just ported. Our house is well built and just one turns the upstairs couch into a massage chair

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Is this the "best," option is up for debate. This is a very good balance for HT and music for sure. I only suggested a lower tune because my mains will be playing down to around 40hz. Then this will play everything lower than that. But that being said a bunch of these would be crazy fun. Hmm. And for others wondering a LOT of other 18" pro audio drivers work just fine in this enclosure also. As long as they have a strong motor they all do fine. Usually the cheapest-possible models dont always work. But 18DS115, SW115, TBW100, Beyma 1400, 1000fe and so on all work.

As I said I will be using a 15" adaptor plate on mine because I have some already sitting on shelfs.
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post #53 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 05:54 AM - Thread Starter
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Quote:
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Is this the "best," option is up for debate. This is a very good balance for HT and music for sure. I only suggested a lower tune because my mains will be playing down to around 40hz. Then this will play everything lower than that. But that being said a bunch of these would be crazy fun. Hmm. And for others wondering a LOT of other 18" pro audio drivers work just fine in this enclosure also. As long as they have a strong motor they all do fine. Usually the cheapest-possible models dont always work. But 18DS115, SW115, TBW100, Beyma 1400, 1000fe and so on all work.

As I said I will be using a 15" adaptor plate on mine because I have some already sitting on shelfs.

Would the Lavoce also work? SAN 214.50, SAN 184.03, SAF 184.03.

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post #54 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 07:39 AM
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Would the Lavoce also work? SAN 214.50, SAN 184.03, SAF 184.03.


They all work. I will try and upload the sim soon. The 21 looks great and that is a monster strong motor. And the 18's you mentioned look good also. This design is not a driver difficult design. So a lot of drivers will work. I am looking at possibly increasing the volume for mine having the port go straight to the back wall for a 16.5hz tune. I have drivers to play with so may try the lower tune with a 21 and try the normal version with my HST/SWS.
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post #55 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 08:06 AM - Thread Starter
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They all work. I will try and upload the sim soon. The 21 looks great and that is a monster strong motor. And the 18's you mentioned look good also. This design is not a driver difficult design. So a lot of drivers will work. I am looking at possibly increasing the volume for mine having the port go straight to the back wall for a 16.5hz tune. I have drivers to play with so may try the lower tune with a 21 and try the normal version with my HST/SWS.

I just updated the driver list. If you have some sims with the standard enclosure size I will also add those to the OP I take it the B&C SW152s have no problem in the enclosure? Edit: I just reread some posts, yes it does.

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post #56 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 08:14 AM
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They all work. I will try and upload the sim soon. The 21 looks great and that is a monster strong motor. And the 18's you mentioned look good also. This design is not a driver difficult design. So a lot of drivers will work. I am looking at possibly increasing the volume for mine having the port go straight to the back wall for a 16.5hz tune. I have drivers to play with so may try the lower tune with a 21 and try the normal version with my HST/SWS.
I'd be really interested to see the graph on performance with the lower tune if you wind up doing this, as well as a sketch of the new port design.

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post #57 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 08:43 AM
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Same with me. Just out of curiosity. Wish i knew how to model.
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post #58 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Dan668 View Post
Well looks like i will start a pair. Have my 2 21ds115 drivers (8ohm), all the speakon stuff and other accessories ill need.

Before i start, with a design no bigger than these and the subs i already have, is this the best option for a predominate home theatre setup, some music (rap, hiphop). The charts look good to me, although im not too familiar with horns.

Also, still struggling on mdf or ply. Mdf is cheaper. With ply it looks like ill need an extra sheet. But i expect them to last a long time. Dont think ill need to upgrade soon, shouldnt say that out loud though. Anything will trump my awful Polk PSW350.
On the MDF vs. ply debate, it's really not a life-changing decision either way. Just comes down to budget and priorities.

Ply is about 1/3rd lighter, creates less dust when cutting/sanding, takes/holds screws better, but costs quite a bit more than MDF.

MDF cuts cleaner, has no edge textures to hide, is easier/quicker (but messier) to sand, but is heavier, and requires pre-drilling for screws.

Having just done builds with both this year, I still don't really have a strong preference. It's all a bunch of wood at the end of the day. The main thing is to apply best practices for what you're working with, regardless of what it is.

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Originally Posted by N8DOGG View Post
If I ever do another build for my place, 8x of these wpuld be a lot of fun......
I just finished 2x Stormbreakers (there will be a build thread with pics soon) for my ~3700 cubic ft. theater room and...boy howdy. They're terrifying at times. I'm on slab, and they still send shockwaves of energy through my couch from 12 feet away. They shake my ceiling-mounted projector and audibly rattle pictures and doors on the opposite side of the house even at moderate playback levels. 8 of them could seriously damage your house if used irresponsibly. (I'm only kind of kidding!!!)
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post #59 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 10:35 AM
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I'm going to build one Devastator.

Anyone here have an experience with OSB Plywood for subs?
Just wondering if it will hold up to the devastation

I have half a dozen OSB sheets in my garage.
OSB isn't the best choice but...
Since you have the sheets and you're wanting to use them for the outsides I say go for it. However, I would laminate two sheets together with either Roberts 3095 carpet adhesive (or Green Glue if you have deep pockets) slathered between and screwed every 8" or so. That way you would get adequate stiffness and some additional damping. Or you could PL them together.

There are many cheap (and some name brand) PA speakers built with carpet covered OSB. Not that that's very inspiring.

I've built some OSB P.A. subs before but I had (have) tons of out of date epoxy and fiberglass laying around to cover them with. And used extra bracing.

I see you're in Canada so maybe Baltic Birch is as cheap there as it is in Nashville.
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post #60 of 121 Old 12-20-2018, 10:36 AM - Thread Starter
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Originally Posted by strawberry View Post
On the MDF vs. ply debate, it's really not a life-changing decision either way. Just comes down to budget and priorities.

Ply is about 1/3rd lighter, creates less dust when cutting/sanding, takes/holds screws better, but costs quite a bit more than MDF.

MDF cuts cleaner, has no edge textures to hide, is easier/quicker (but messier) to sand, but is heavier, and requires pre-drilling for screws.

Having just done builds with both this year, I still don't really have a strong preference. It's all a bunch of wood at the end of the day. The main thing is to apply best practices for what you're working with, regardless of what it is.



I just finished 2x Stormbreakers (there will be a build thread with pics soon) for my ~3700 cubic ft. theater room and...boy howdy. They're terrifying at times. I'm on slab, and they still send shockwaves of energy through my couch from 12 feet away. They shake my ceiling-mounted projector and audibly rattle pictures and doors on the opposite side of the house even at moderate playback levels. 8 of them could seriously damage your house if used irresponsibly. (I'm only kind of kidding!!!)

Glad to hear they live up to expectations! Just one in 6000ft3 rattles the snot out of my projector, not sure how I can fix that. Two Devastators should be the stopping point, though adding two near field end tables someday is still stuck in the gray matter
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Stormbreaker a B&C 21DS115 Subwoofer Solution | Wisconsin Home Theater Meet Thread
You can always turn it down, but you can only turn it up so much.
7.1.4 | Yamaha A3070 | Crown XLS 1502 | iNuke 3000 DSP | 2x Aphex 124A | 2x Bic EV15 | 7x Bic FH6 LCR | 2x Bic FH65-B | Sub 21" Stormbreaker | Epson 5010e | 120" DIY AT Screen
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