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post #1261 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 05:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nomjolnir View Post
I'd like to see the performance difference between VBSS and REXUS.



I have four PA460 being delivered and one Behringer NX3000d ready for duty.



What software do I need to model and compare the VBSS to the REXUS?


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post #1262 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 08:28 AM
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Hmm these are quite tempting.. and they even sell raw 18" drivers that are cheaply priced as well. Wonder how close those are to PA460's





Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
I am all about the spirit of DIY, but I am also pragmatic.

For those of you that want the ~ 31 Hz "music" tune, and don't have the time, skills or money to build, you might want to consider one of these:

Rockville PBG18

At $165 delivered, they are a steal with a slightly smaller footprint, similar tuning (F3 of 29 Hz), high sensitivity and power handling, etc.

I have two of these in my fair weather outdoor system. I am driving them with a bridged Crown XLS 1502 and they rock the entire block!

It costs about the same to build, and you get carry handles, carpet finish, speakon connector, corner protectors, etc. They may not look as good as a DIY finish, but it is tough to beat them for the money. They even have lesser versions of under $130 delivered.

Just throwing that out there as something to consider depending on the constraints one has.

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post #1263 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Cryptic1911 View Post
Hmm these are quite tempting.. and they even sell raw 18" drivers that are cheaply priced as well. Wonder how close those are to PA460's

Courtesy of mtg90:

Here they are modeled:

Quote:
Originally Posted by mtg90 View Post
Modeled sensitivity of PA 460 vs. Rockville subwoofer drivers in 31hz VBSS enclosure, guessed at inductance since it's not listed (put it the same as PA460):

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post #1264 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 09:41 AM
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They are close enough that you can get pretty much the same performance for half to 3/4 price.

It depends on if/where you need the extra couple db...above or below 50Hz...or, you would need to tweak the filters a hair to get the same response.

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post #1265 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 09:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
1. How do you calculate the port size/length for a custom shape box with a slot port with a 15hz tune?

Since the vbss has custom EQ settings I figured it would be hard to model in winisd since the pa460 isn't exactly designed to go that low...
Would appreciate any direction on this 1 question
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post #1266 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 11:06 AM
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I don't understand how Rockville is making money. Craaaazy!

Just the shipping alone and the assembly time without all the hardware would be around $200.

Just crazy.

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post #1267 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 11:12 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
Thank you so much for this. What tune is yours set to? I also have a mac... so I assume ill be doing this manually!
I use my DSP Dayton plate amp for a couple PA 12s. Since it is so new, there are not many users that have had enough experience to help you.

But it should not be too hard to match the settings in the Behringer file.
@michael hurd helped me with the settings on mine, or you might be able to get LT or MT to give you an assist if you private message them.


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post #1268 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 04:29 PM
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Originally Posted by kagtha View Post
I don't understand how Rockville is making money. Craaaazy!

Just the shipping alone and the assembly time without all the hardware would be around $200.

Just crazy.
It is insanity. That is how I ended up with them in first place. I couldn't pass up giving them a try. I am so glad I did. They are disposable at those prices and they perform better than they cost, that almost never happens.

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post #1269 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 07:08 PM
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Finally building mine 😄 2 exactly as described and 2 modified so they fit behind my couch.
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post #1270 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 08:22 PM
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Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
460HO will have about 6db more output below about 40hz.

PA460 will have more impactful midbass.

the frequency response of both at 1 watt (VBSS tuned to about 20hz).



max spl would be something like this:



doesn't really tell the story though.

if all you can get is two subs and you want loud lowend lfe for movies, get the 460ho's.

if you listen to loud music and want the best upper end, get the pa460's.

if you want it all, get both.

alternatively, six pa460's would also do it.

Being the owner of 2 Full Marty /RS460 and 2 VBSS 31Hz tune...... TRUST HIM and me..... get BOTH if you have the space....


Juju
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post #1271 of 1308 Old 01-05-2019, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
It is insanity. That is how I ended up with them in first place. I couldn't pass up giving them a try. I am so glad I did. They are disposable at those prices and they perform better than they cost, that almost never happens.

My neighbor has those....they are made of FLAKEBOARD..... not nearly as solid as the VBSS that is properly made. They are just ok for music.... HT... just don't. He brought them over for a "shootout" of sorts..... and lost badly.... 2 VBSS vs 2 Rockville.... in the end, he even admitted the the VBSS sounded better. For my money.... I'd stick with the VBSS.


YMMV....


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post #1272 of 1308 Old 01-06-2019, 07:32 AM
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Originally Posted by jujuman200 View Post
My neighbor has those....they are made of FLAKEBOARD..... not nearly as solid as the VBSS that is properly made. They are just ok for music.... HT... just don't. He brought them over for a "shootout" of sorts..... and lost badly.... 2 VBSS vs 2 Rockville.... in the end, he even admitted the the VBSS sounded better. For my money.... I'd stick with the VBSS.
There is no doubt that the VBSS is going to be better. But, audio is subjective.

For movies, no doubt, I would look the other way. For music, they do the trick in my outdoor system. The ones I have are made from MDF and are as well constructed as you can expect for this price point.
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post #1273 of 1308 Old 01-06-2019, 09:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinthenewb View Post
Finally building mine 😄 2 exactly as described and 2 modified so they fit behind my couch.
Did you just calculate the port in winisd?

I wasn't sure if it would reflect accurately with all the dsp settings required to get the pa460 to go so low
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post #1274 of 1308 Old 01-06-2019, 07:11 PM
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how far from the amp can the sub be? my av rack is likely just over 50 linear feet to where the subs will be possibly even further....do i need to rethink or would i be ok?
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post #1275 of 1308 Old 01-06-2019, 10:15 PM
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Im trying to set the VBSS DSP settings on my SPA500DSP but when I run the app it gives me the error: "The VI is not executable. The full development version of LabVIEW is required to fix the errors." Anyone ever run into this!?
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post #1276 of 1308 Old 01-07-2019, 03:54 AM
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Originally Posted by boomshine View Post
how far from the amp can the sub be? my av rack is likely just over 50 linear feet to where the subs will be possibly even further....do i need to rethink or would i be ok?

You will be fine...use 12 gauge wire for the cable run...
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post #1277 of 1308 Old 01-07-2019, 06:34 AM
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Sorry to quote myself,
Quote:
Originally Posted by vn800art View Post
Have the BEST Year 2019 you ALL are looking for!
Done the greetings, here come the question.
As per post 789 May 1st from @LTD02 :
"31Hz Version

For the 31Hz mode version, everything is the same except the bottom port board is 10.50" long. There is no vertical port board in the 31hz version. Stuffing one port in the 31Hz version tunes the cab to about 22Hz."
Is the horizontal port brace to be reduced accordingly to 10.5”, OR I better let it full internal length, for more structural support? I want to be sure!
I have received the PA 460 8 18 from the European distributor, don't want to let it sit there!
Hoping to compliment my system for music listening (have a Behringer 3000dsp and 4x12" Jbl in 2x2 sealed cabs running semi nearfield placed vertically under my surround speakers).
Best regards
Alessandro
In particular:
Is the horizontal port brace to be reduced accordingly to 10.5”, OR I better let it full internal length, for more structural support? I want to be sure!
I have all the materials coming (and the Ls is here, yet). I am asking to a nearby facility a cut for the horizontal port brace as full lenght, from port face to the rear back side, but much part of the brace will have no cover.
Moreover, I decided to build a double baffle (1/2' thickness), so I will recess the two boards a bit into the case. I would like to avoid any other internal volume to be lost in wood material (and I will have to provide some bracing, too).
If cutting the brace to effective horizontal port length is a better choice (for audio flux flowing - sorry for the non technical words), then I can easily resize it.
Thanks for Your interest
Regards
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post #1278 of 1308 Old 01-07-2019, 02:01 PM
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Has anyone tried this or modeled it with the PA 465? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade over the 460 for home theater use?
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post #1279 of 1308 Old 01-07-2019, 03:57 PM
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Originally Posted by meeks32 View Post
Has anyone tried this or modeled it with the PA 465? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade over the 460 for home theater use?
It looks like the 465 would be better for sealed applications.

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post #1280 of 1308 Old 01-07-2019, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by goonstopher View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinthenewb View Post
Finally building mine 😄 2 exactly as described and 2 modified so they fit behind my couch.
Did you just calculate the port in winisd?

I wasn't sure if it would reflect accurately with all the dsp settings required to get the pa460 to go so low
Nope i just copied the port from the slot port version posted in the thread. Same internal volume, same port cross section and length so hopefully it will all work out. I tried to model this in winisd but kept getting weird results even when copying the proven design.
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post #1281 of 1308 Old 01-08-2019, 03:36 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeks32 View Post
Has anyone tried this or modeled it with the PA 465? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade over the 460 for home theater use?
from another design thread, this was comparing 6xpa460 with 3xpa465 (equivalent cost)

http://01966633.com/forum/155-d...l#post42008121

6xpa460's was the clear winner when it comes to SPL/dollar (especially when you factor in the amps).
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post #1282 of 1308 Old 01-08-2019, 04:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jpmst3 View Post
Courtesy of mtg90:



Here they are modeled:


What about the Rockville SBG1188? I think they’re are tuned to 20hz. They sell them by the pair for less than 300 I believe.



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post #1283 of 1308 Old 01-08-2019, 06:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kevinthenewb View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by meeks32 View Post
Has anyone tried this or modeled it with the PA 465? Would it be a worthwhile upgrade over the 460 for home theater use?
from another design thread, this was comparing 6xpa460 with 3xpa465 (equivalent cost)

http://01966633.com/forum/155-d...l#post42008121

6xpa460's was the clear winner when it comes to SPL/dollar (especially when you factor in the amps).
Let’s imagine my wife would divorce me if I put 6 large boxes in our living room. I plan on putting 2 into a entertainment center under a tv. Would the 465 get me much more? I’m not worried about the extra $200 in cost if it would be a worthwhile upgrade.
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post #1284 of 1308 Old 01-09-2019, 11:42 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by meeks32 View Post
Let’s imagine my wife would divorce me if I put 6 large boxes in our living room. I plan on putting 2 into a entertainment center under a tv. Would the 465 get me much more? I’m not worried about the extra $200 in cost if it would be a worthwhile upgrade.
The 465 is not going to work well in this design. You are better off sticking with the 460 and the specs everything was designed around.

If you want more output in the lowest octaves and only want two subs, go with the UM-18 and a Marty design.

I am not sure what to tell you about the wife. ( I would go with 6 boxes and get a new one.)
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post #1285 of 1308 Old 01-10-2019, 08:42 AM
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For those of you that DO have have 4+ of these things, how do you EQ them? I can't imagine you EQ them all individually. I'm thinking of upgrading to 4 which would be 2 per channel on inuke.
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post #1286 of 1308 Old 01-11-2019, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by joker927 View Post
For those of you that DO have have 4+ of these things, how do you EQ them? I can't imagine you EQ them all individually. I'm thinking of upgrading to 4 which would be 2 per channel on inuke.
Mt provided the EQ file in the first post.

The goal of this blueprint build is to make it easier for all of us that don't have years of high level audio experience.

That being said, if you follow the first post carefully then you won't be disappointed. If you change something like the enclosure volume or the Amp, then you will need to ask for help which may not sound as good as the proven VBSS footprint.

Long story short, is that if you want to build four to spec, then you will want to purchase the Behringer NX3000D.

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post #1287 of 1308 Old 01-11-2019, 08:37 AM
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Is the question about integrating 4+ of these subs? If so, they would have to be EQ'd in groups per channel since that is how they are amplified. With the Inuke/NX amps, and four subs @ two per channel, the amp is seeing one load per channel and each channel can be time aligned/volume matched. Maybe there is a different approach I am not aware of?
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post #1288 of 1308 Old 01-11-2019, 11:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
460HO will have about 6db more output below about 40hz.

PA460 will have more impactful midbass.

the frequency response of both at 1 watt (VBSS tuned to about 20hz).



max spl would be something like this:



doesn't really tell the story though.

if all you can get is two subs and you want loud lowend lfe for movies, get the 460ho's.

if you listen to loud music and want the best upper end, get the pa460's.

if you want it all, get both.

alternatively, six pa460's would also do it.
How would the PA460 vs 460ho compare in the VBSS tuned to 20, with 250watts on the PA460 vs 500watts on the 460HO?
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post #1289 of 1308 Old 01-12-2019, 12:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jvphotog View Post
How would the PA460 vs 460ho compare in the VBSS tuned to 20, with 250watts on the PA460 vs 500watts on the 460HO?
twice the power gives +3db. the shape of the curves would remain the same.

the curves don't tell the whole story though. the pa460 impedance is much higher, which reduces the power through the driver for the same level of output. it has a much higher efficiency toward the midbass.

Listen. It's All Good.
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post #1290 of 1308 Old 01-12-2019, 04:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LTD02 View Post
twice the power gives +3db. the shape of the curves would remain the same.

the curves don't tell the whole story though. the pa460 impedance is much higher, which reduces the power through the driver for the same level of output. it has a much higher efficiency toward the midbass.
Any chance you would be interested to model a comparison between the PA460 and the BMS18n862? I know this gets about as far away from the Value Buster intention of the design as you can get, but I am sincerely interested in the comparison and was wondering if the cab size would work remotely well with this driver...it seems to do well in small sealed. Although it was tested in a ported cab on data-bass, it was unfortunately a 25Hz tune.

I have one PA460 in 4ft^3 sealed and LOVE the mid bass slam. What is your opinion as to whether the BMS driver would give equivalent mid bass performance? I know max output would be higher but I know that doesn't always tell the whole story about how it will sound, as evidence by the PA460's extraordinary performance up top.

Last edited by bear123; 01-12-2019 at 04:07 PM.
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