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post #271 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 04:42 PM
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Originally Posted by d_c View Post
I agree. You will get some of this at my house with the Gjallarhorns at the KC Gtg. Then we'll add the nearfield hs24 for some extra fun from below 10hz. 2 subs is way more than plenty if done right.
Hey! Get those 24's in before I show up, mister!
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post #272 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 04:48 PM
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Originally Posted by Scott Simonian View Post
Hey! Get those 24's in before I show up, mister!
Just received the tracking info - woo-hooooooo!!!
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post #273 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by Mfusick View Post
Boosting the crap out of the lowest octave just places a lot of stress on the driver and the amp, causes more distortion, wastes power, and reduces head room and the articulate control I like in a subwoofer. If you want those frequencies you are better off to choose an amp and driver and enclosure system that will get you there naturally and not artificially.
"Boost" as you use it is a nonsensical concept. This isn't Mario Kart, there's no mushroom that can allow your amplifier or sub to exceed its capabilities. There is nothing artificial about it; the sub makes a maximum amount of SPL at a given frequency, and that's all there is to it. You want to rant about people who push their systems into distortion? That's fine, but that doesn't really have anything to do with boost, that's about the guy cranking the volume knob too high.
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post #274 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 07:02 PM
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By the year 2020 it will be required code to have at least one Matterhorn in every neighborhood.

You know.... for protection.
...Yeeeeesss......for ..Safety....

Working on the next one...
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post #275 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 07:16 PM
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Originally Posted by rhodesj View Post
"Boost" as you use it is a nonsensical concept. This isn't Mario Kart, there's no mushroom that can allow your amplifier or sub to exceed its capabilities. There is nothing artificial about it; the sub makes a maximum amount of SPL at a given frequency, and that's all there is to it. You want to rant about people who push their systems into distortion? That's fine, but that doesn't really have anything to do with boost, that's about the guy cranking the volume knob too high.
I too "boost" my subwoofer by way of a Linkwitz Transform as well as to get a house curve. I can assure you that although I don't have any distortion measurements, my "boosting" is not artificial and does not cause distortion...I'd turn it down and add more subs before I accept anything other than tight, clean, articulate bass. That comment was a generality that overstepped a little...not that I haven't made similar general comments of my own.
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post #276 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 07:31 PM
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Boosting is fine as long as you understand the limits of what you are doing. If you for example put a driver in a 3 ft3 sealed box with 1k watts, look at the spl chart with 1k watts applied, that is the maximum spl you will get at any frequency no matter what you do (we're ignoring peak for simplicity). If you apply a +6db PEQ at 20hz you are still limited by the fact that you only have 1k watts. Turn your power down by 4x to 250 watts and look at your spl, that is the maximum your boosted sub will go before compression. It is the same spl at the boosted frequency as the non boosted box with 1k watts. If you dont push the sub harder then this congrats you just got +6db on the low end in a modest sealed box. If you push things past this you will likely clip your amp if there isnt a limiter in place.
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post #277 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 09:58 PM
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I have a bridged Crest CC5500 on each LMS 5400, however, mine are loaded in Ghorns, and all that power can only be used near the excursion minimum from about 15-17hz if I really want to push the limit of the driver both mechanically and thermally.

This is a rare use case though, especially since I have a 13hz HPF and a 22hz LPF on these so the bandwidth they cover is MUCH smaller than normal.
Definition of sub-baller: Using a pair of the most potent DIY subs known to man to cover a frequency span of ~10Hz...

Reading between the lines, if anything, it puts just how incredible the Othorns are into perspective!
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post #278 of 294 Old 03-31-2015, 10:06 PM
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Originally Posted by popalock View Post
Definition of sub-baller: Using a pair of the most potent DIY subs known to man to cover a frequency span of ~10Hz...

Reading between the lines, if anything, it puts just how incredible the Othorns are into perspective!


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post #279 of 294 Old 04-01-2015, 06:13 AM
 
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Originally Posted by Jay1 View Post
Boosting is fine as long as you understand the limits of what you are doing. If you for example put a driver in a 3 ft3 sealed box with 1k watts, look at the spl chart with 1k watts applied, that is the maximum spl you will get at any frequency no matter what you do (we're ignoring peak for simplicity). If you apply a +6db PEQ at 20hz you are still limited by the fact that you only have 1k watts. Turn your power down by 4x to 250 watts and look at your spl, that is the maximum your boosted sub will go before compression. It is the same spl at the boosted frequency as the non boosted box with 1k watts. If you dont push the sub harder then this congrats you just got +6db on the low end in a modest sealed box. If you push things past this you will likely clip your amp if there isnt a limiter in place.
Right. ^. It's tough on amps and limits headroom and sound quality but within reason and if done properly can be ok.
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post #280 of 294 Old 04-05-2015, 12:46 AM
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Any opinions/experience on RCF LF18x451 and RCF LF21x451?
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post #281 of 294 Old 04-07-2015, 10:29 AM
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Deep pockets, multiple drivers, multiple amps, DSP, you'll be fine ! These boys will surely point you in the right direction.....

I hope this actually happens and we have the pleasure of seeing the first (32) 18" driver system...... I can dream !

32! 32! 32! 32! 32!


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post #282 of 294 Old 10-02-2018, 05:24 PM
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[QUOTE
I'm an over the top kind of guy...i like capability, even without practicality. I'm not saying I'll use it all the time, but I want to hit at least 7 or 6Hz. I used to pump 7Hz tunes and feel the waves squeeze my finger held up in front of me with my last subwoofer pair.[/QUOTE] Thats me. I want it better than it needs to be, more power than needed. Then I can operate it at a lower level and not stress the equipment.
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post #283 of 294 Old 10-03-2018, 11:10 PM
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Dug up from the graveyard.
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post #284 of 294 Old 10-05-2018, 02:18 PM
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Take a look at the drivers from http://www.harbottleaudio.com

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LG OLED55C6P, Denon X4400H 5.2.4, HSU 5.1 speakers, 2x18" Dayton Ultimax sealed, MiniDSP 2x4 HD, Pro-LITE 7.5 amp
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post #285 of 294 Old 01-09-2019, 07:16 PM
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Take a look at the drivers from http://www.harbottleaudio.com
The drivers look cool enough. Are they even available in the States?

It looks like the UXL is MIA too.

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post #286 of 294 Old 01-10-2019, 05:52 PM
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The drivers look cool enough. Are they even available in the States?

It looks like the UXL is MIA too.
First I've heard of these guys... anyone have a clue on pricing?

Have a question and want it answered in podcast format?
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post #287 of 294 Old 01-10-2019, 09:35 PM
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First I've heard of these guys... anyone have a clue on pricing?
It's funk audio. The prices are stupid. I have some quote somewhere, I'll see if I can dig it up. Can't easily find it atm.

These are the last prices I had saved from 2017

edit: never mind, can't post prices since I have a fan club that reports me for violating tos. You can poke harbottle audio on facebook for pricing.
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post #288 of 294 Old 01-10-2019, 09:58 PM
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If price is no object then my vote is for 35 inch diameter def bonce subwoofers with at least 8 subwoofers but preferably sixteen subwoofers .Amps at least 5k power to each subwoofer as these bad boys have an eight inch diameter voice coil per subwoofer.
Hmm maybe a tad overkill but lots of headroom plus good extension .

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #289 of 294 Old 01-10-2019, 11:19 PM
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When someone is looking for "asbsolute performance" the first question that comes to mind is "What percentage of the room volume are you willing to allocate to subwoofers?"

The second question is "What are the room walls made of?" The answer to that second question indicates how much you might look at the room-subs as a 6th order bandpass sub which has the audience seated inside the front chamber.......
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post #290 of 294 Old 01-11-2019, 01:02 AM
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Seriously though....

I looked at the Ultimax 18 vs SI24 and ended up with four Ultimax 18 and also two SI 24 that are waiting for boxes to be built. The 24's are probably going to be nearfield subs.
Using MFG specifications:
The 18s displacement is 2682cm^3 vs the SI 24 is 7896cm^3 (one 24 = three 18)
One 24 or three 18 could give 100 dB ,101dB respectively at 10Hz (free space).
The 18s are 89dB and the 24s are 95dB (it takes 4x the power to get an 18=24)
(three 18s put close together give 98dB with 1w each. A 24 makes 98dB with 2w)
For high frequencies at 101dB the 24 needs 4W and the three 18s need 2w each.
The 24 builds to a sealed box of Qtc=0.7 with 34Hz resonance and -3dB (roughly)
The 18 builds to a sealed box of Qtc=0.7 with 26Hz resonance and -3dB
The box for a 24 needs 250L the box for the three 18s needs 855L (8cf vs 30cf).
The dB ratings above are for frequencies higher than resonance (mass controlled oscillation)
At 10Hz the oscillation is spring controlled.
The 24" is at -24dB when playing 10Hz and would need 1000w to Play 100dB.
The 18"s are at -19.5dB when playing 10Hz and need 100w each to play 100dB.

However you can put more than 3x the bass into a given room using 24" subs than when you put 18s in because the box is smaller compared to, xmax*Sd, displacement.

Sub costs are $1300 each 24 vs $975 per three 18s.

So if your limit is money the amps and subs are both less per 10Hz bass SPL with 18s.

If your limit is % room volume taken by subs the 24s are the better choice.

Adding a 4th 18 brings the price up to the single 24 (rougly).
Cutting the cabinet volume in half gives 20cf box volume with four 18s and can play 103dB at 10Hz using about 150w each driver. That's what I have in my HT.
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Last edited by artsci2; 01-12-2019 at 02:30 AM. Reason: corrected value of Ultimax 18 displacement is 2682cm^3
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post #291 of 294 Old 01-11-2019, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by artsci2 View Post
When someone is looking for "asbsolute performance" the first question that comes to mind is "What percentage of the room volume are you willing to allocate to subwoofers?"

The second question is "What are the room walls made of?" The answer to that second question indicates how much you might look at the room-subs as a 6th order bandpass sub which has the audience seated inside the front chamber.......
Infinite baffle in my case and the room, walls, roof are concrete so i guess 8 subwoofers ? Ib318v2 and i need to have bass traps.

DIY beats store purchased.
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post #292 of 294 Old 01-11-2019, 03:30 PM
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I got this in the Fall, probably still good
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post #293 of 294 Old 01-11-2019, 04:37 PM
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I got this in the Fall, probably still good
Holy moly those prices just went up. Asked about the 15 but never mind.

And the 24 vs 18 was closer to 2:1. 1178cm2 vs 2078cm2 all from SI specs.
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post #294 of 294 Old 01-11-2019, 11:28 PM
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And the 24 vs 18 was closer to 2:1. 1178cm2 vs 2078cm2 all from SI specs.
A single SI HS-24 has a little more output and digs a few Hz deeper on 4,000w than a pair of SI HST-18s with 8,000w total. This is based on quite a few measurements of both setups in multiple rooms.

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